2009 Atlasian Economic Relief and Recovery Bill (Law'd)

[MaxQue]

Section 3: Aid to the Atlasian Auto Industry ($45+ billion)

   a. The federal government will purchase majority shareholder status in the Big 3 auto companies: General Motors, Ford and Chrysler
   b. An Automobile Industry Reform Board (AIRB) will be selected, tasked with the running of the Big 3
   c. The AIRB will be tasked with refocusing and streamlining production, with a focus on the development and production of fuel efficient and hybrid cars
   d. The Big 3 will also be paid to produce buses and trains, to expand the Atlasian public transportation system
   e. The AIRB will be required to make reports to the Senate every six months
   f. A flexible goal of returning to the Big 3 to private ownership within five years will be set

What clause in the Constitution gives the Senate the power to do this?

What clause in the Constitution denies the Senate the Power to do this?

[SPC]

Section 3: Aid to the Atlasian Auto Industry ($45+ billion)

   a. The federal government will purchase majority shareholder status in the Big 3 auto companies: General Motors, Ford and Chrysler
   b. An Automobile Industry Reform Board (AIRB) will be selected, tasked with the running of the Big 3
   c. The AIRB will be tasked with refocusing and streamlining production, with a focus on the development and production of fuel efficient and hybrid cars
   d. The Big 3 will also be paid to produce buses and trains, to expand the Atlasian public transportation system
   e. The AIRB will be required to make reports to the Senate every six months
   f. A flexible goal of returning to the Big 3 to private ownership within five years will be set

What clause in the Constitution gives the Senate the power to do this?

What clause in the Constitution denies the Senate the Power to do this?

Article IV, Section 3, Clause 2 says this:

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So, unless you can show me where the Senate is granted that power in the Constitution, they do not have it.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Section 3: Aid to the Atlasian Auto Industry ($45+ billion)

   a. The federal government will purchase majority shareholder status in the Big 3 auto companies: General Motors, Ford and Chrysler
   b. An Automobile Industry Reform Board (AIRB) will be selected, tasked with the running of the Big 3
   c. The AIRB will be tasked with refocusing and streamlining production, with a focus on the development and production of fuel efficient and hybrid cars
   d. The Big 3 will also be paid to produce buses and trains, to expand the Atlasian public transportation system
   e. The AIRB will be required to make reports to the Senate every six months
   f. A flexible goal of returning to the Big 3 to private ownership within five years will be set

What clause in the Constitution gives the Senate the power to do this?

What clause in the Constitution denies the Senate the Power to do this?

I would suggest not feeding the lunatic. SPC also thinks regions should be able to have separate currencies.

[Lief 🗽]

Ostensibly the inter-state commerce clause (or the Atlasian equivalent) would allow that.

[SPC]

Section 3: Aid to the Atlasian Auto Industry ($45+ billion)

   a. The federal government will purchase majority shareholder status in the Big 3 auto companies: General Motors, Ford and Chrysler
   b. An Automobile Industry Reform Board (AIRB) will be selected, tasked with the running of the Big 3
   c. The AIRB will be tasked with refocusing and streamlining production, with a focus on the development and production of fuel efficient and hybrid cars
   d. The Big 3 will also be paid to produce buses and trains, to expand the Atlasian public transportation system
   e. The AIRB will be required to make reports to the Senate every six months
   f. A flexible goal of returning to the Big 3 to private ownership within five years will be set

What clause in the Constitution gives the Senate the power to do this?

What clause in the Constitution denies the Senate the Power to do this?

I would suggest not feeding the lunatic. SPC also thinks regions should be able to have separate currencies.

I lost that in court. Unless you either omit that part of the legislation or give a constitutional justification, I intend to take this to court, and this time, I have a better case, since the constitution does not mention buying private companies.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Section 3: Aid to the Atlasian Auto Industry ($45+ billion)

   a. The federal government will purchase majority shareholder status in the Big 3 auto companies: General Motors, Ford and Chrysler
   b. An Automobile Industry Reform Board (AIRB) will be selected, tasked with the running of the Big 3
   c. The AIRB will be tasked with refocusing and streamlining production, with a focus on the development and production of fuel efficient and hybrid cars
   d. The Big 3 will also be paid to produce buses and trains, to expand the Atlasian public transportation system
   e. The AIRB will be required to make reports to the Senate every six months
   f. A flexible goal of returning to the Big 3 to private ownership within five years will be set

What clause in the Constitution gives the Senate the power to do this?

What clause in the Constitution denies the Senate the Power to do this?

I would suggest not feeding the lunatic. SPC also thinks regions should be able to have separate currencies.

I lost that in court. Unless you either omit that part of the legislation or give a constitutional justification, I intend to take this to court, and this time, I have a better case, since the constitution does not mention buying private companies.

The Constitution doesn't mention a great number of things, feel free to take them all to court.

[SPC]

I, Marokai Blue, do solemnly swear that I will to the best of my ability preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the Republic of Atlasia, so help me Dave.

Relevant parts quoted.

[SPC]

Ostensibly the inter-state commerce clause (or the Atlasian equivalent) would allow that.

I checked Article 1 of the Constitution and couldn't find an interstate commerce clause.

[SPC]

Section 3: Aid to the Atlasian Auto Industry ($45+ billion)

   a. The federal government will purchase majority shareholder status in the Big 3 auto companies: General Motors, Ford and Chrysler
   b. An Automobile Industry Reform Board (AIRB) will be selected, tasked with the running of the Big 3
   c. The AIRB will be tasked with refocusing and streamlining production, with a focus on the development and production of fuel efficient and hybrid cars
   d. The Big 3 will also be paid to produce buses and trains, to expand the Atlasian public transportation system
   e. The AIRB will be required to make reports to the Senate every six months
   f. A flexible goal of returning to the Big 3 to private ownership within five years will be set

What clause in the Constitution gives the Senate the power to do this?

What clause in the Constitution denies the Senate the Power to do this?

I would suggest not feeding the lunatic. SPC also thinks regions should be able to have separate currencies.

I lost that in court. Unless you either omit that part of the legislation or give a constitutional justification, I intend to take this to court, and this time, I have a better case, since the constitution does not mention buying private companies.

The Constitution doesn't mention a great number of things, feel free to take them all to court.

Knowing how busy the Justices' personal lives are, I do not wish to place that much stress on them. I will focus on one piece of legislation at a time.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

The auto section was the next thing I intended to move to change as soon as my amendment regarding the Public-Private Partnerships was voted on, and something meaningful was done on the other two things that me and Marokai were discussing earlier today. I can't support the forced nationalization of all three companies against there will. I would prefer to nationalise none of them. However if it is going to be in the bill it should be a voluntary procedure, or something else so a company like Ford that can survive on its own, is allowed two. I also feel that some consolidation may be necessary in the North American market and that may require the break up of Chrysler(Take the good stuff like Jeep and sell it to Ford or a Foriegn car maker and just axe all the garbage lines).

My best comparison to the automakers would be the Railroads in the 1970's. Over competition lead to the creation of the monopolistic Penn Central(combining three Railroads into one)When this ill conceived monster went bankrupt it looked like there would not be Rail service from Maine to Illinois. The Gov't did step in but the winds of deregulation were blowing and they were able to eventually split the Northeast Penn Central(Then called Conrail) in two and sell it too two railroads who were already competiting with each other in the Southeast. While Conrail was around they shut down a lot of garbage routes and unfortunatly laid a lot of people of, but that was inevitable from the beginning cause the Northeast could no longer economically demand the services of such a sprawling Railroad. The same thing is happening here with the Auto companies. We don't want monopolies yet we have to much competition. I could support a Nationalisation of Chrysler only if I knew that what needed to be cut would be cut without regard to political expediency and eventually what is left will be sold off to the other Auto companies whether they be headquatered here or overseas.

As for General Motors, I think they can survive a bankruptcy on the own without a takeover. However being the risk of Liquidation I think some measures could be taken to reduce that risk by essentially providing them either with Gov't backed private loans like we did for Chrysler in the late 70's(My prefered route) or if necessary direct aide should they be unable to raise essential amounts of capital.

There is one more thing. This bill requires them to focus on fuel efficient cars. However no where is there a provision mentioning the profitability of a vehicle as a factor in deciding whether or not to produce it or not. I don't want the gov't to push products that won't sell and already beleagured companies just to advance a certain social ajenda. Unless profitability is taking into consideration, there is no way we can be sure they will be privatised in 3 years or 30 years. What happens if you can sell the company's shares at a private auction, can it then be split up with the pieces that are wanted being sold and the rest shut down?

I would hate to see a general dissagreement of this torpedo what had been a general productive proceeding.

[Ebowed]

https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Twenty_second_Amendment_to_the_Second_Constitution

stfu

[Marokai Backbeat]

https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Twenty_second_Amendment_to_the_Second_Constitution

stfu

[Purple State]

Aye on my amendment ftr.

[SPC]

the 22nd Amendment says this:

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Isn't there a difference between regulating a company and taking over a company?

And don't section 2h and section 4 of this bill violate Article I, Section 6, Clause 7 of the Constitution?

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[MasterJedi]

This is what we're debating now. There shall be a vote on this later tonight, but we need some debate on it first if you will.

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[Marokai Backbeat]

I don't really see a need to restrict government spending here, but, it's a step in the right direction and I'll support it if no one's willing to loosen the caps on federal spending there a bit.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I don't really see a need to restrict government spending here, but, it's a step in the right direction and I'll support it if no one's willing to loosen the caps on federal spending there a bit.

My intent with this amendment was not to "Restrict Gov't Spending". My intent was to make sure that some of the projects like the "smart grid" get the funding they need. My research tells me that grid will cost about $110 Billion only $50 Billion has been appropriated in the bill. My goal was to create a plan whereby private capital could be used alongside Gov't money to ensure the projects actually have enough funding to get done. If you think there is a poorly interpreted phrase that can be interpreted as restricting Gov't Spending please bring it to my attention so I can modify it.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Would the honerable dictator of the Senate replace the amendement he has up there with the one at the bottom of this quote. The honerable Senator must have missed this at the top of page 6.

PS' amendments to Section 2 are perfectly fine amendments and I'll vote for them.

The language in clause j amendment must be cleaned up to be concise and make sense. However, it seems to be a good amendment, once again.

Alright I have revised my amendment adding a new clause J as follows.

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If there are any other improvements that you can suggest to the language, they would be most welcomed. If not, then I wish the language of my amendment be replaced with the above text.

[Fritz]

I move that the current amendment be brought to a vote, as I don't think there is any opposition to it.

I also propose the following amendment (gasp!):

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[Marokai Backbeat]

I move that the current amendment be brought to a vote, as I don't think there is any opposition to it.

I also propose the following amendment (gasp!):

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Opposed. Is there no middle ground we can come to on aiding the auto-industry? Allowing them to fall would completely cancel out any benefits the stimulus would have in other areas. We have to remember we must battle aggressively on all fronts, we can't be aggressive in one area, and on the other hand allow millions of jobs to die off.

[Franzl]

I'll vote for Fritz's amendment, of course.

NCYankee outlined good proposals for aiding the auto industry when debate on this stimulus package first began, and I think we should approach the problem from that direction.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I proposed this amendment with the inclusion of the nationalization of the auto industry at the behest of President Lief who told me to introduce it with my aims high but to compromise if necessary. I would much prefer a middle ground rather than simply stripping something out and canceling out half of the stimulus. We may as well just vote the entire stimulus down if we're not prepared to do everything necessary.

What sort of middle ground proposals, specifically, would anyone here support for aiding the auto-industry? (And forgive me, but I didn't read NCY's post on the previous page entirely. I read about half of it and got distracted )

[Franzl]

I'd suggest lowering corporate taxation on the auto industry by a certain amount...but also providing further direct incentives and subsidies for research and development of better, fuel efficient cars to enable Atlasia's car makers to be able to compete with foreign car companies.

You probably won't be happy with that.... But I don't support taking over the auto industry....and I don't think poor business decisions should be rewarded by providing endless help to companies that aren't economically viable.

The Atlasian auto industry needs to become more competitive, plain and simple, but at the same time, I'd be terribly uncomfortable with the government making business decisions and damaging competition.

[MasterJedi]

I hereby open up the vote on the amendment below. Please vote Aye, Nay or Abstain.

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Aye

[Franzl]

Aye