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  Protest to end the ConCon
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Author Topic: Protest to end the ConCon  (Read 9078 times)
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Hashemite
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« on: July 16, 2009, 05:13:54 pm »

Since it's petition/angerangeranger/protest season 'round these parts these days, I throw my hat into the ring with a real protest.

Let's end this thingee. Firstly, the voters don't care. Secondly, the delegates don't care at all. Thirdly, we won't get anything useful, let alone real reform out of this experiment. If you're still interested in doing your minor tweaks to this system, do it in the Senate or something. Real reform is impossible due, primarily, to the omnipotence of the anti-reformist mindset around here. People, face it, this thing isn't going anywhere. What do you expect out of it, if anything? Let's call it a day for this thingee. Be done, ConCon.

x Hashemite
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Marokai Backbeat
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« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2009, 05:19:52 pm »

I really wanted something out of this Convention, I still do, but there comes a point where all the "reform" is unnecessary garbage proposed just for the hell of it. The "House of Representatives" idea was basically like that.

I really wish we could at the very least compile all the passed amendments into the Constitution and rewrite it all to accommodate them, but no one apparently just wants to do that. People, including yourself, complain about wanting reform but you've got to realize it's not a matter of what we want here, but a matter of what would pass a referendum and what makes sense. We shouldn't propose something just for the hell of it, and we shouldn't propose something that's doomed from the beginning.

I would love a Council of Governors to make regional executives more exciting, but no one wants to do this. I want to rewrite and proof-read the constitution, but no one wants to do that either. We have an all-or-nothing mindset here that is very unfortunate.

I won't sign this, but I'm quite disappointed.
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Хahar 🤔
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« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2009, 05:49:01 pm »

X Xahar

We shouldn't propose something just for the hell of it, and we shouldn't propose something that's doomed from the beginning.

Why?
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Marokai Backbeat
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« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2009, 05:58:35 pm »

It's a gigantic waste of time?
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Hashemite
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« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2009, 05:59:53 pm »

People, including yourself, complain about wanting reform but you've got to realize it's not a matter of what we want here, but a matter of what would pass a referendum and what makes sense. We shouldn't propose something just for the hell of it, and we shouldn't propose something that's doomed from the beginning.

Roll Eyes lol. Which planet have you been on lately? I still want reform, and I still am a defender of a parliamentary system. However, in case you haven't noticed, I've given up defending that idea a long time ago since I knew it was doomed, just as I and others gave up on universalism. If anybody has realized that what matters in this little failed experiment is what the voters want and not what our ideals tell us, it's definitely me.
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« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2009, 06:30:02 pm »


Just like the rest of the game. Carry on.
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MasterJedi
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« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2009, 08:14:37 pm »

I sign and give this my full support.

X MasterJedi
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Smid
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« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2009, 09:18:29 pm »

I'm happy to support Hashemite's proposal, but I think that it should be easier to form one of these in future. Perhaps a constitutional amendment that would allow a 2/3rds majority vote of the Senate to form a future ConCon?
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« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2009, 09:21:03 pm »

This has been a disaster. In retrospect, it probably wouldn't have mattered if I had resigned as a delegate, since many of the other delegates were just as active, from what I've heard.

X South Park Conservative
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Purple State
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« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2009, 11:57:56 pm »
« Edited: July 17, 2009, 12:42:22 am by Senator Purple State »

Okay, because this has sufficient support, I bring the motion to end the Convention to a vote of all delegates. This vote shall last for two weeks. Please vote Aye, No or Abstain. Those who do not vote after that time shall be considered a vote in the affirmative.

Rules of Order pertaining to the motion:
Quote
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Vepres
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« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2009, 12:05:29 am »

I really wanted something out of this Convention, I still do, but there comes a point where all the "reform" is unnecessary garbage proposed just for the hell of it. The "House of Representatives" idea was basically like that.

I really wish we could at the very least compile all the passed amendments into the Constitution and rewrite it all to accommodate them, but no one apparently just wants to do that. People, including yourself, complain about wanting reform but you've got to realize it's not a matter of what we want here, but a matter of what would pass a referendum and what makes sense. We shouldn't propose something just for the hell of it, and we shouldn't propose something that's doomed from the beginning.

I would love a Council of Governors to make regional executives more exciting, but no one wants to do this. I want to rewrite and proof-read the constitution, but no one wants to do that either. We have an all-or-nothing mindset here that is very unfortunate.

I won't sign this, but I'm quite disappointed.

Don't forget that, as a Senator, you can introduce amendments to achieve those reforms.
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Meeker
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« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2009, 12:36:26 am »

Okay, because this has sufficient support, I bring the motion to end the Convention to a vote of all delegates. This vote shall last for two weeks. Please vote Aye, No or Abstain. Those who do not vote after that time shall be considered a vote in the affirmative.

?!?!?!!?

Strong Nay from me.
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Purple State
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« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2009, 12:41:08 am »
« Edited: July 17, 2009, 12:42:48 am by Senator Purple State »

Okay, because this has sufficient support, I bring the motion to end the Convention to a vote of all delegates. This vote shall last for two weeks. Please vote Aye, No or Abstain. Those who do not vote after that time shall be considered a vote in the affirmative.

?!?!?!!?

Strong Nay from me.

It is in the Rules of Order. I didn't just make it up. I have edited the post with the pertinent clause to make that clearer. My apologies.
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Marokai Backbeat
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« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2009, 12:55:05 am »

Nay
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MasterJedi
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« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2009, 07:02:07 am »

Aye
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Hashemite
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« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2009, 07:06:46 am »

Aye
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Franzl
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« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2009, 01:18:50 pm »

Aye
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minionofmidas - supplemental forum account
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« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2009, 01:43:14 pm »

All good things come to an end.
And the not good things too, apparently.
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Smid
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« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2009, 09:46:17 pm »

Aye.
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #19 on: July 19, 2009, 10:13:59 pm »

     Aye
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Vepres
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« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2009, 11:46:01 pm »

Soooooooo... is the ConCon over then?
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MaxQue
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« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2009, 11:52:32 pm »


The vote is two weeks long, until July 31.
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Bacon King
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« Reply #22 on: July 22, 2009, 01:24:53 pm »

aye
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Purple State
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« Reply #23 on: July 22, 2009, 05:08:26 pm »


It is at a vote and I hesitate to initiate any further debate until this motion is resolved. But I am still PO.
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Purple State
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« Reply #24 on: July 31, 2009, 05:22:39 pm »

Final Vote
Aye = 18 (6 + 12 no votes)
Nay = 2



The Convention is hereby brought to a close. Thank you to everyone who participated and worked hard to work for a better Atlasia.

While the Convention did not produce any substantive proposal that could be passed by the delegates, it certainly brought excellent debate and renewed spirit to the game. My only regret is not that we could not form a new system of governance, but that the discussions became less than cordial. If anything, this Convention has served the game well by bringing new ideas to the table and developing solid thoughts about future game reform.

It is my hope that the dialogue sparked here will continue to spur Atlasia into a new Golden Age and a renaissance of game play. I applaud you all for the hard work during the past few months and I look forward to continuing these discussions.

Thank you,
~Presiding Officer Purple State
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