Atlasian National Healthcare Bill (Law'd)

[Associate Justice PiT]

     Someone please introduce an amendment to strike section 1, clause f.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     I would be interested in seeing a filibuster. Not so much because of any ideological issues I may have with this bill as it is that the filibuster is a sorely underused tactic in Atlasia.

     Also, may I remind everyone that back in the 30th Senate a filibuster succeeded in killing a bill to institute a more progressive income tax structure (with 6 supporters of the bill as put forth compared to 5 here, no less!).

[Associate Justice PiT]

If I proposed a tax hike on the rich to pay for this program, it would probably be shot down by the econ. conservatives here. Yet we're perfectly comfortable paying for a national health care program on the backs of the poor..

     Economic libertarians? In the 32nd Senate? I think you see a different Senate than I do.

[Associate Justice PiT]

Paying taxes is patriotic?  That is the kind of talk that scares the crap out of a reasonably thinking person

Supporting your government is and government can't survive without revenue from taxes. Unreasonable taxes are terrible, but I don't think any of the taxes raised here are unreasonable, especially for the service being provided.

     Being patriotic or not is a choice, ignoring the fact that patriotism is an overused platitude. Unless you are saying that paying taxes should be a choice, please don't try to link the two together, thank you.

[Associate Justice PiT]

Paying taxes is patriotic?  That is the kind of talk that scares the crap out of a reasonably thinking person

Supporting your government is and government can't survive without revenue from taxes. Unreasonable taxes are terrible, but I don't think any of the taxes raised here are unreasonable, especially for the service being provided.

     Being patriotic or not is a choice, ignoring the fact that patriotism is an overused platitude. Unless you are saying that paying taxes should be a choice, please don't try to link the two together, thank you.

Of course paying taxes is a choice. We all have free will. It's the consequences of not paying your taxes that tips the equation for most people towards paying, rather than not. I'm not really sure why paying one's taxes should not be viewed as a small bit of patriotism, just as rallying in support of your government would be. And visa versa.

     Well, as you point out, there are legal consequences for not paying taxes. I pay taxes because I don't want to go to prison. Does that make me patriotic? For that matter, is someone who got sent to Vietnam because they did not want to go to prison patriotic? Doesn't it undermine the notion of patriotism when the choice is between being patriotic & suffering the wrath of the state?

[Associate Justice PiT]

Paying taxes is patriotic?  That is the kind of talk that scares the crap out of a reasonably thinking person

Supporting your government is and government can't survive without revenue from taxes. Unreasonable taxes are terrible, but I don't think any of the taxes raised here are unreasonable, especially for the service being provided.

     Being patriotic or not is a choice, ignoring the fact that patriotism is an overused platitude. Unless you are saying that paying taxes should be a choice, please don't try to link the two together, thank you.

Of course paying taxes is a choice. We all have free will. It's the consequences of not paying your taxes that tips the equation for most people towards paying, rather than not. I'm not really sure why paying one's taxes should not be viewed as a small bit of patriotism, just as rallying in support of your government would be. And visa versa.

     Well, as you point out, there are legal consequences for not paying taxes. I pay taxes because I don't want to go to prison. Does that make me patriotic? For that matter, is someone who got sent to Vietnam because they did not want to go to prison patriotic? Doesn't it undermine the notion of patriotism when the choice is between being patriotic & suffering the wrath of the state?

The other option is leaving the country. Many people ducked the war and duck taxes by going abroad. While I'm not sure if this makes them un-patriotic, it certainly is a small testament to those who stay and support their government, no matter in what way.

This is, of course, not to say that any tax is a good tax. Oppressive taxes should be opposed and reflect tyranny, but by no means could one argue that the taxes here act as such.

     I guess we just view the notion of patriotism in different ways. There's nothing wrong with that.