Important Announcement

[jerusalemcar5]

Obviously, the President has no authority to fire members outside of his branch.  Only a king or dictator can do that.  In a federal government we have checks and balances.  One is that the President cannot dismiss senators or justices as he pleases because then he would hold absolute authority.

[Virginian87]

What has EarlAW done to merit treatment in this manner?  Did he personally attack President Ebowed?

[jerusalemcar5]

What has EarlAW done to merit treatment in this manner?  Did he personally attack President Ebowed?

He voted against a Ebowed nominee, and refused to succumb to Ebowed',s blackmail.  It doesn't matter though, the President has no authority to do this.

[jokerman]

As the Attorney General-designate I strongly support this decision and will defend it in court, if necessary, if the issue comes up.

I would much rather, however, see Earl accept the decision and peacefully leave the Senate.

[Virginian87]

What has EarlAW done to merit treatment in this manner?  Did he personally attack President Ebowed?

He voted against a Ebowed nominee, and refused to succumb to Ebowed',s blackmail. 

Please elaborate.

[jerusalemcar5]

What has EarlAW done to merit treatment in this manner?  Did he personally attack President Ebowed?

He voted against a Ebowed nominee, and refused to succumb to Ebowed',s blackmail. 

Please elaborate.

Earl posted about it earlier.  Something lame like Ebowed wanting Earl to post a resolution honoring Johnny Cash.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

This is... er... odd... does anyone know quite what happend?

Can't see the bit in the Constitution where it says that the Executive can expel a member of the Legislature from the Legislature though. Can't recall any precedent that might allow it either. Strange.

[Speed of Sound]

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

This is... er... odd... does anyone know quite what happend?

Can't see the bit in the Constitution where it says that the Executive can expel a member of the Legislature from the Legislature though. Can't recall any precedent that might allow it either. Strange.

I was in the chat last night, so here's what happened:

Ebowed and Earl got into a spat over Earl and jcar's votes against Bono's nomination. Ebowed said that despite him not buying the argument that another office holder can not serve as GM, he would fire them from them GM position because of that, unless Earl would introduce a resolution honoring Johnny Cash. Earl refused, and basically others like Preston started saying that you can't disobey the President as they control the federal army and can sack any member from any office on the basis of that if they wanted to, and started encouraging another revolution to form a bit of a dictatorship. Earl continued to refuse to introduce the resolution, and then this post came.

[Hatman 🍁]

This is... er... odd... does anyone know quite what happend?

Can't see the bit in the Constitution where it says that the Executive can expel a member of the Legislature from the Legislature though. Can't recall any precedent that might allow it either. Strange.

I was in the chat last night, so here's what happened:

Ebowed and Earl got into a spat over Earl and jcar's votes against Bono's nomination. Ebowed said that despite him not buying the argument that another office holder can not serve as GM, he would fire them from them GM position because of that, unless Earl would introduce a resolution honoring Johnny Cash. Earl refused, and basically others like Preston started saying that you can't disobey the President as they control the federal army and can sack any member from any office on the basis of that if they wanted to, and started encouraging another revolution to form a bit of a dictatorship. Earl continued to refuse to introduce the resolution, and then this post came.

Just what we need, another revolution.

[ilikeverin]

This is... er... odd... does anyone know quite what happend?

Can't see the bit in the Constitution where it says that the Executive can expel a member of the Legislature from the Legislature though. Can't recall any precedent that might allow it either. Strange.

I was in the chat last night, so here's what happened:

Ebowed and Earl got into a spat over Earl and jcar's votes against Bono's nomination. Ebowed said that despite him not buying the argument that another office holder can not serve as GM, he would fire them from them GM position because of that, unless Earl would introduce a resolution honoring Johnny Cash. Earl refused, and basically others like Preston started saying that you can't disobey the President as they control the federal army and can sack any member from any office on the basis of that if they wanted to, and started encouraging another revolution to form a bit of a dictatorship. Earl continued to refuse to introduce the resolution, and then this post came.

Just what we need, another revolution.

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!

Err, I mean, oh darn.

[Dr. Cynic]

After just reading over the constitution, there is no authority that grants the President the right to "fire" a member of the legislative body. Mr. Ebowed can do whatever he wants about Mr. Washburn being a GM, but there is no law that says the President has the right to do such a thing as fire a Senator.

My personal feelings about this case are outlined in my commentary on the AWN thread. While this is going on, many Atlasians are out of work and starving to death. I cannot fathom how President Ebowed can feel that expelling Mr. Washburn and getting who he wants in a Sec. of Treasury is more important than the sky high unemployment rate or the other numerous problems that face Atlasia today.

[TomC]

After just reading over the constitution, there is no authority that grants the President the right to "fire" a member of the legislative body. Mr. Ebowed can do whatever he wants about Mr. Washburn being a GM, but there is no law that says the President has the right to do such a thing as fire a Senator.

I'm not affirming or negating your (or anybody's) claim here, exactly, but you should probably read this to understand the President's authority:

The plaintiff is correct in asserting that such a power is not enumerated anywhere in the Constitution. However, the powers of the President (unlike the powers of the Senate) are not limited by any particular enumeration.

There is an important difference between the vesting clauses of Articles I and II. The former provides that “All Legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in the Senate of the Republic of Atlasia” (emphasis added). This clause does not actually grant any powers to the Senate. Rather, it merely provides that the legislative powers granted “herein” (that is to say, in the Constitution) shall belong to the Senate. In other words, it does not grant power; it merely provides where powers enumerated in other parts of the Constitution will be situated.

On the other hand, the vesting clause of Article II provides: “The executive power shall be vested in the President of the Republic of Atlasia” (Article II, Section 1, Clause 1). Unlike the first clause of Article I, this clause does not merely identify the locus of powers granted elsewhere in the Constitution. On the contrary, this clause is, in and of itself, a substantive grant of authority. Hence, the President’s power flows from the general grant made in Article II, Clause 1, whereas the Senate’s power flows from the specific grants made in several different clauses.

[True Democrat]

Since Earl hasn't tried to refute this, I assume he is now out of the Senate.

[Dr. Cynic]

Well I for one would just like to know WHY President Ebowed would want to remove Mr. Wasburn from the Senate. Just because he doesn't support Mr. Bono for Treasury Secretary. That is how this started... And I want to know why?

[Colin]

After just reading over the constitution, there is no authority that grants the President the right to "fire" a member of the legislative body. Mr. Ebowed can do whatever he wants about Mr. Washburn being a GM, but there is no law that says the President has the right to do such a thing as fire a Senator.

I'm not affirming or negating your (or anybody's) claim here, exactly, but you should probably read this to understand the President's authority:

The plaintiff is correct in asserting that such a power is not enumerated anywhere in the Constitution. However, the powers of the President (unlike the powers of the Senate) are not limited by any particular enumeration.

There is an important difference between the vesting clauses of Articles I and II. The former provides that “All Legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in the Senate of the Republic of Atlasia” (emphasis added). This clause does not actually grant any powers to the Senate. Rather, it merely provides that the legislative powers granted “herein” (that is to say, in the Constitution) shall belong to the Senate. In other words, it does not grant power; it merely provides where powers enumerated in other parts of the Constitution will be situated.

On the other hand, the vesting clause of Article II provides: “The executive power shall be vested in the President of the Republic of Atlasia” (Article II, Section 1, Clause 1). Unlike the first clause of Article I, this clause does not merely identify the locus of powers granted elsewhere in the Constitution. On the contrary, this clause is, in and of itself, a substantive grant of authority. Hence, the President’s power flows from the general grant made in Article II, Clause 1, whereas the Senate’s power flows from the specific grants made in several different clauses.

I have to agree that after reviewing this, according to precedent, President Ebowed has full authority to do this as we have no restriction, currently, upon the powers and duties of the executive. As per Sam Spade v. Atlasia the President does have powers outside of the Constitution that are not therein stated. He thus does have the power to remove a Senator at will if he deems fit.

[Dr. Cynic]

But the question I am posing is what kind of thing warranted the expulsion? Clearly the President should have to give a reason for the expulsion, or else if we're not careful, the President can just remove his enemies at will.

[Hatman 🍁]

This is absolutely ridiculous. How are we supposed to have any credibility if the President can fire Senators on a whim? I advise that the Senate quickly pass a constitutional amendment so that the President can not do this again, and do it quick before he fires everyone.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

It's more than just ridiculous.

[afleitch]

I have no idea why the President has done what he has done, but while it appears that there is no legal or constitutional 'bar' on whether or not he can do this, it is not healthy that this loophole remains and legislation must be tabled as soon as possible in order that it cannot happen again. Presidents firing democraticaly elected Senators is something I am uncomfortable with.

[Josh/Devilman88]

Impeachment time...

[Colin]

Impeachment time...

Whatever you may think about this situation the President has not committed any crime nor any misdemeanor. While you may not agree with his actions nothing that he has done thus far has been illegal.

[Dr. Cynic]

I have to agree with Mr. Wixted. We can't impeach him, because he didn't break the law, but we need to do something about this law. It could eventually lead to totalitarianisim.

[Hatman 🍁]

Impeachment time...

Whatever you may think about this situation the President has not committed any crime nor any misdemeanor. While you may not agree with his actions nothing that he has done thus far has been illegal.

While that question is still up in the air, what he has done is still unhealthy for Atlasia in that it grossly undemocratic. I'd call for his impeachment if I was convinced that the Senate has the balls to do it. Right now, I'm not so sure.

[adam]

This really isn't cool.  Earl elected via the Democratic process and thus by doing this you are throwing away the voices of an entire region.