WinDis Polls - 1: Abortion

[Associate Justice PiT]

     Besides the point. Many people deny that the fetus should be entitled to the rights of an adult human. From the perspective of an atheist libertarian, there isn't really any sensible reason why they would be.

Why not?  I've never understood why an atheist automatically has to be pro-choice.

     You don't automatically have to be anything. There just isn't any compelling reason for an atheist to be pro-life, at least from the perspective of a liberties-based world view.

Um, it has nothing to do with religion. You either believe in basic human rights, or you don't.

     We've been over this before. I believe in "human rights" because of a specific feature that distinguishes us from animals. It makes sense to me to think of it that way, since there must be some reason that we have rights & animals do not. Now, fetuses do not possess this specific feature...see what I'm getting at?

                                                              what specific feature? We are talking about a development here of a being that is already human even if there is not as much intelligence or what have you. isn't it at least only a matter of degree rather than a difference in kind?

     I'm referring to a capacity for self-reflection, critical thought, & analytical thought; to wit, complex thought processes. I am not aware of fetuses having demonstrated any of those capabilities.

[Countess Anya of the North Parish]

     Besides the point. Many people deny that the fetus should be entitled to the rights of an adult human. From the perspective of an atheist libertarian, there isn't really any sensible reason why they would be.

Why not?  I've never understood why an atheist automatically has to be pro-choice.

     You don't automatically have to be anything. There just isn't any compelling reason for an atheist to be pro-life, at least from the perspective of a liberties-based world view.

Um, it has nothing to do with religion. You either believe in basic human rights, or you don't.

     We've been over this before. I believe in "human rights" because of a specific feature that distinguishes us from animals. It makes sense to me to think of it that way, since there must be some reason that we have rights & animals do not. Now, fetuses do not possess this specific feature...see what I'm getting at?

Yeah, and once again, you want to believe in an arbitrary definition of humanity because it supports your personal agenda. Sorry, but you can't force your beliefs on others.

     I don't want to force my beliefs on the issue on anyone. That's why I'm pro-choice.

good ownage there.

Yeah, PiT was owned pretty badly. I'm glad you are here to comfort him.

oh please. he got you there. If you can't admit that then you take this stuff to seriously. Everyone gets burned once in a while. It just happen to be you this time libertas.

Except I didn't get "burned". Learn how to follow a conversation please.

lol. denial is the first step.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

     Besides the point. Many people deny that the fetus should be entitled to the rights of an adult human. From the perspective of an atheist libertarian, there isn't really any sensible reason why they would be.

Why not?  I've never understood why an atheist automatically has to be pro-choice.

     You don't automatically have to be anything. There just isn't any compelling reason for an atheist to be pro-life, at least from the perspective of a liberties-based world view.

Um, it has nothing to do with religion. You either believe in basic human rights, or you don't.

     We've been over this before. I believe in "human rights" because of a specific feature that distinguishes us from animals. It makes sense to me to think of it that way, since there must be some reason that we have rights & animals do not. Now, fetuses do not possess this specific feature...see what I'm getting at?

                                                              what specific feature? We are talking about a development here of a being that is already human even if there is not as much intelligence or what have you. isn't it at least only a matter of degree rather than a difference in kind?

     I'm referring to a capacity for self-reflection, critical thought, & analytical thought; to wit, complex thought processes. I am not aware of fetuses having demonstrated any of those capabilities.

then when do you believe they arise? adolescence maybe? do mentally handicapped people not have these abilities either?

[Associate Justice PiT]

     Besides the point. Many people deny that the fetus should be entitled to the rights of an adult human. From the perspective of an atheist libertarian, there isn't really any sensible reason why they would be.

Why not?  I've never understood why an atheist automatically has to be pro-choice.

     You don't automatically have to be anything. There just isn't any compelling reason for an atheist to be pro-life, at least from the perspective of a liberties-based world view.

Um, it has nothing to do with religion. You either believe in basic human rights, or you don't.

     We've been over this before. I believe in "human rights" because of a specific feature that distinguishes us from animals. It makes sense to me to think of it that way, since there must be some reason that we have rights & animals do not. Now, fetuses do not possess this specific feature...see what I'm getting at?

                                                              what specific feature? We are talking about a development here of a being that is already human even if there is not as much intelligence or what have you. isn't it at least only a matter of degree rather than a difference in kind?

     I'm referring to a capacity for self-reflection, critical thought, & analytical thought; to wit, complex thought processes. I am not aware of fetuses having demonstrated any of those capabilities.

then when do you believe they arise? adolescence maybe? do mentally handicapped people not have these abilities either?

     They begin to develop in infancy (problematically, I don't think there's any way to fix the point these faculties begin to develop), & continue to develop until adulthood (notice how children are not allowed to do many things adults can, such as, say, buy or drive a car). I think mentally handicapped people, as well as anyone else who is not essentially a vegetable, have some capacity for complex thought, which therefore must be respected.

[Conservative frontier]

Pro-life

[nclib]

Pro-choice.

[Joe Republic]

Sorry, but you can't force your beliefs on others.

Ah, so you're opposed to the banning of abortion now?

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

Sorry, but you can't force your beliefs on others.

Ah, so you're opposed to the banning of abortion now?

No, as I just said, you can't force your beliefs on others.

[Joe Republic]

Sorry, but you can't force your beliefs on others.

Ah, so you're opposed to the banning of abortion now?

No, as I just said, you can't force your beliefs on others.

Exactly.  Therefore, in your view, people should be able to do whatever they want, with no exceptions.  Like kill people, for example.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

Sorry, but you can't force your beliefs on others.

Ah, so you're opposed to the banning of abortion now?

No, as I just said, you can't force your beliefs on others.

Exactly.  Therefore, in your view, people should be able to do whatever they want, with no exceptions.  Like kill people, for example.

No, killing people is an example of forcing your beliefs upon others, contrary to natural law.

[Phony Moderate]

Sorry, but you can't force your beliefs on others.

Ah, so you're opposed to the banning of abortion now?

No, as I just said, you can't force your beliefs on others.

Exactly.  Therefore, in your view, people should be able to do whatever they want, with no exceptions.  Like kill people, for example.

No, killing people is an example of forcing your beliefs upon others, contrary to natural law.

And not everyone shares that belief....

[Conservative frontier]

Who cares, Children are a gift from God, Abortion is not a right, it's a inhumane murder machine.

[paul718]

Who cares, Children are a gift from God, Abortion is not a right, it's a inhumane murder machine.

Not everyone believes that a fetus qualifies as a "child".  Similarly, the destruction of one would not qualify as murder.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

Who cares, Children are a gift from God, Abortion is not a right, it's a inhumane murder machine.

Not everyone believes that a fetus qualifies as a "child".  Similarly, the destruction of one would not qualify as murder.

And those people are wrong.