Israel-Gaza war

[Hindsight was 2020]

Go to bed earlier and Middle East explodes again 0.o

[Hindsight was 2020]

3 certainties in life: death, taxes, and any discussion about Israel being toxic as f**k

[Hindsight was 2020]

I hope all the Republicans against aid to Ukraine also take a similar stand against aid to the apartheid state of Israel.

So is the guiding light of your foreign policy just supporting whichever side massacres civilians?

No, it’s probably more about hating Jews

[Hindsight was 2020]

Also how Israel treats Palestinians is disgusting and they should be pressured into changing their policies but the Hamas response of killing civilians doesn’t help anyone

[Hindsight was 2020]

Hamas is posting tons of images to telegram of Israeli civilians they killed in cold blood. They have no idea how bad they f-ed themselves and the pr blow to sympathies in the West this will be

[Hindsight was 2020]

Stop bringing the Ukrainian war into this thread jaichind you vatnik piece of sh**

[Hindsight was 2020]

I just got off the phone with my mother. I had not realized that my grandmother is actually in Israel at this time, visiting a cousin. This cousin works for the State Department and they are in a safe location. This got wrenchingly personal very fast.

Are they alright?

[Hindsight was 2020]

Great job on the thread everyone! Congratulations due all around.

I can confidently say that after keeping up with this all day, that I hardly know more about the ongoing war from this thread than I did at 10:00am. On the plus side I now know what an East German apartment looked like.

Very proud moment for the forum

[Hindsight was 2020]

https://twitter.com/michaelh992/status/1711031750674014466?s=46&t=-TLJWg2jgX...

The DSA should seriously cancel the pro-Palestinian protests they set up in NYC tomorrow. The optics of holding rallies where your waving Palestinian flags and giving speeches condemning Israel when this stuff is coming out could do irreversible harm to leftists movements in the West

[Hindsight was 2020]

https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1711056318801248531?s=12
Israel is starting to really hammer Gaza

[Hindsight was 2020]

https://twitter.com/maks_nafo_fella/status/1711087784574759243?s=12
☹️

The link is wrong or the tweet has been deleted. What was it about?

Deleted vid of Gaza on fire

[Hindsight was 2020]

40+ pages in and this thread is dissolving into talking about straight men picking up twinks on Grindr. Fantastic job Atlas

[Hindsight was 2020]

How Israel treated Palestinians for decades has been abhorrent and they do deserve there how actual nation but what Hamas has done is disgusting, disgraceful and unjustifiable and Israeli has every military/security right to go in and wipe out Hamas for this. It’s a depressing situation all around

[Hindsight was 2020]

Two thoughts:

1. Wow this thread sucks.
2. Wow you guys SUCK.

If there's a thread that makes a solid argument for me leaving this forum because of insane ass bullsh**t, this one is it.  I've heard enough genocide fantasies on both sides to make me understand why some folks want to live in Mars.

-The Man

The irony is that Hamas played into Israel's hand. They have undercut the Palestinian cause for the next 20-30 years, perhaps even longer.

The Palestinians are too weak to fight back against Israel stealing their land, so there isn't much else they can do anyway.

There’s still better alternatives to murdering concert goers and going around neighborhoods hunting for Jewish people to indiscriminately kill

[Hindsight was 2020]

There are really disturbing reports of more atrocities Hamas committed on hostages that might be going mainstream soon ☹️

[Hindsight was 2020]

There are really disturbing reports of more atrocities Hamas committed on hostages that might be going mainstream soon ☹️

And they have 😞
https://twitter.com/mattgertz/status/1711784332543627549?s=12

[Hindsight was 2020]

Hamas killed babies and Israel is blowing up babies in retaliation, everything sucks and I’m depressed. At the end of the day Palestine has a right to be a nation and how Israel treats them is abhorrent but anyone with a soul left can’t in good faith defend or justify what Hamas has done

[Hindsight was 2020]

Big talk about “all westerners are evil people” from someone who bends the knee and is happily leashed by China and Russia. Dogs like you aren’t valued by your masters.

Zzzzzzzzzz again the bipolar “Western” or “Russia/China” camps talk.

Talk about reality denialism. But I get that pushing a bipolar reading of the world is more convenient because it allows a “Us or them”; “Good or Bad” dichotomy to be instrumentalized in your favor.

World is already multipolar no matter how inconvenient that complexity is for you. We’re getting constant signs if it every day.

Says the person who defends Russia’s war crimes on the grounds of “West bad”

[Hindsight was 2020]

Red Velvet the cake is a serviceable desert, Red Velvet the poster is a useless

[Hindsight was 2020]

https://twitter.com/noelreports/status/1713210433883033919?s=12
Ground invasion likely next week ☹️

[Hindsight was 2020]

It's certainly a disgrace. We (the western world and its liberal values) will pay a high price for it

https://twitter.com/mattduss/status/1713210261996462512?t=bM7yVJGecfofH5zcd3hd5w...

No one with a brain buys the ~west cares about the liberal order~ propaganda discourse outside the West.

The West has propelled dictatorships and genocide when it saw that as aligned to their material self-interests. They use liberalism and democracy as an instrument only, not as a goal, especially in foreign countries.

If a democracy starts going against their interests on any matter, they will promote regime change undercover and more discreetly. If an autocracy starts doing that, then they will be more open about it and justify it as fighting terrorism or dictatorship in name of liberal values.

However, if a democracy or an autocracy aligns with their interests, they will treat as “liberal allies” no matter the horrors they may commit when they happen to be a dictatorship.

I don't buy most of your arguments, but no doubt that most of the folks attacking you without caring to address the fundamental question stressed above are, in fact, validating you

Most of us don’t have patience for a poster who (by his own standards) supports genocide of Ukrainians saying how westerners are bunch of hypocrites especially when most westerners here made upset about how Palestinians are treated

[Hindsight was 2020]

It's certainly a disgrace. We (the western world and its liberal values) will pay a high price for it

https://twitter.com/mattduss/status/1713210261996462512?t=bM7yVJGecfofH5zcd3hd5w...

No one with a brain buys the ~west cares about the liberal order~ propaganda discourse outside the West.

The West has propelled dictatorships and genocide when it saw that as aligned to their material self-interests. They use liberalism and democracy as an instrument only, not as a goal, especially in foreign countries.

If a democracy starts going against their interests on any matter, they will promote regime change undercover and more discreetly. If an autocracy starts doing that, then they will be more open about it and justify it as fighting terrorism or dictatorship in name of liberal values.

However, if a democracy or an autocracy aligns with their interests, they will treat as “liberal allies” no matter the horrors they may commit when they happen to be a dictatorship.

I don't buy most of your arguments, but no doubt that most of the folks attacking you without caring to address the fundamental question stressed above are, in fact, validating you

Most of us don’t have patience for a poster who (by his own standards) supports genocide of Ukrainians saying how westerners are bunch of hypocrites especially when most westerners here made upset about how Palestinians are treated

Upset but somehow no calls for no-fly zones, or sanctions, or sending supplies to Gaza, or treating Israel as a pariah state like South Africa. Mostly a lot of hand wringing and "what can you do?"s from the same people who were most enthusiastic about unending support for Ukraine. RV can make some pretty boneheaded and shortsighted posts but in this case he is absolutely 100% correct

"If only we had some sort of measure we use against countries that violated international law!"

I have a question:

How is Hamas supposed to be destroyed with Israel Sieging Gaza. Like there is no good solutions to this, but Gaza will have to be invaded and occupied 

Times of Israel: "For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces" – The policy of treating the terror group as a partner, at the expense of Abbas and Palestinian statehood, has resulted in wounds that will take Israel years to heal from by Tal Schneider https://timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

Haaretz: "Both the Egyptians and the Qataris are angry with Hamas, and they were going to cut all ties with them. All of a sudden Netanyahu shows up as a Hamas advocate, pressuring Egypt and the Qataris to continue” with the financial support." https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east...transfer/0000017f-ded8-d856-a37f-ffd88a960000

Mil Intel Dir Yadlin Comments on Gaza, etc. June 13, 2007: "Yadlin said Israel would be "happy" if Hamas took over Gaza because the IDF could then deal with Gaza as a hostile state. He dismissed the Iranian role "as long as they don't have a port." https://web.archive.org/web/20140904145748/https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/07TELAVIV1733_a.html

“Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas. This is part of our strategy – to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.” – Benjamin Netanyahu https://archive.ph/ABPWd#selection-1144.0-1144.1

"How can we possibly deal with the terrorist group we propped up and supported for decades without slaughtering the civilians?"

Geeh I wonder why people might be more fine giving a conventional military sending arms to a place that would likely end up in the hands of a terrorist organization that just beheaded babies?

[Hindsight was 2020]

Upset but somehow no calls for no-fly zones, or sanctions, or sending supplies to Gaza, or treating Israel as a pariah state like South Africa. Mostly a lot of hand wringing and "what can you do?"s from the same people who were most enthusiastic about unending support for Ukraine. RV can make some pretty boneheaded and shortsighted posts but in this case he is absolutely 100% correct

"If only we had some sort of measure we use against countries that violated international law!"

Geeh I wonder why people might be more fine giving a conventional military sending arms to a place that would likely end up in the hands of a terrorist organization that just beheaded babies?

But giving air support to the terrorists who literally exterminated entire towns in Libya was A-OK I guess? Or the terrorists who eventually became Al-Nusra and ISIS in Syria?

And putting aside the very long precedent of having zero qualm arming the worst possible people, what about humanitarian aid? What about sanctions? What about literally any of the measures taken against so-called "rogue states" over the past several decades? If you discount the fact that Israel is Above The Law then there are a huge range of options short of sending Hamas military equipment. Why are these options never on the table when it comes to Israel?

Libya and Syria are lazy whataboutisms considering the atrocities Gaddafi and Assad had/have done that the country you have as an avatar enabled (especially Assad). When it comes to humanitarian aid you already seeing that this is an issue with groundswell western support by the fact after being so gung-ho that Biden raised these concerns

[Hindsight was 2020]

To all the posters that are being critical of Israel. What would you have done if you were Israel After the Hamas abducted/raped/decapitated a ton of israeli children ?


Death toll is terrible in Gaza but I genuinely don't see how Hamas shouldn't be entirely blamed for that.

Not firing missiles at hospitals, giving a more reasonable evacuation timeframe for civilians and not cutting off water to children don’t seem unreasonable expectations

[Hindsight was 2020]

Upset but somehow no calls for no-fly zones, or sanctions, or sending supplies to Gaza, or treating Israel as a pariah state like South Africa. Mostly a lot of hand wringing and "what can you do?"s from the same people who were most enthusiastic about unending support for Ukraine. RV can make some pretty boneheaded and shortsighted posts but in this case he is absolutely 100% correct

"If only we had some sort of measure we use against countries that violated international law!"

Geeh I wonder why people might be more fine giving a conventional military sending arms to a place that would likely end up in the hands of a terrorist organization that just beheaded babies?

But giving air support to the terrorists who literally exterminated entire towns in Libya was A-OK I guess? Or the terrorists who eventually became Al-Nusra and ISIS in Syria?

And putting aside the very long precedent of having zero qualm arming the worst possible people, what about humanitarian aid? What about sanctions? What about literally any of the measures taken against so-called "rogue states" over the past several decades? If you discount the fact that Israel is Above The Law then there are a huge range of options short of sending Hamas military equipment. Why are these options never on the table when it comes to Israel?

Libya and Syria are lazy whataboutisms considering the atrocities Gaddafi and Assad had/have done that the country you have as an avatar enabled (especially Assad). When it comes to humanitarian aid you already seeing that this is an issue with groundswell western support by the fact after being so gung-ho that Biden raised these concerns

So to be clear, you believe there's a point where a state commits enough atrocities that arming baby killing terrorists is justified after all? Could you define the line Israel would have to cross for a no-fly zone and arming Hamas to be the correct course of action? How about sanctions? Come on, lets now be vague and talk about "atrocities" somehow changing the calculus, tell me specifically: what crime committed by Assad or Gaddafi that the Israelis haven't would cause Biden to take a hard line? An illegal WMD program, perhaps a secret nuclear program? The number of civilians killed in the entire Libyan Civil War (at least the first phase) was somewhere in the high thousands to low tens of thousands. If Bibi surpasses that number will American F-35's intervene to end the bombing campaign? Is there any conceivable action that would result in sanctions being imposed on "America's Greatest Ally"?

If you haven't noticed my signature I'm not exactly a fan of Putin but he didn't defend Assad because of "international law" or "human rights" but because Assad was his ally. And all the evidence suggests that Biden isn't sending aircraft carriers to protect Israel from retaliation because of the "rules based international order" but for similarly amoral reasons. My point isn't "America is just like Putin, therefore Putin is justified", it's "America is just like Putin, therefore we live in a world of murderous amoral tyrants who only care about human rights so far as it benefits them personally"

No and at no point in my post did I imply that only that invoking them to own the West is a bad example also Assad gassed civilians and as bad as Israel has been they haven’t gone down that road