The Confederate Flag

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Walter Mitty, why sell out your homeland? S.Carolina has every RIGHT to fly the flag from their statehouse capitol if they wish. It is a proud symbol of their history and has been hijacked by hate groups. Although, the U.S. flag has been hijacked by the KKK and is used more by them then the CS Flag. I will post pictures of every CS Flag shortly.

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If the states vote that they want it up. Let them. It's not the business of the ACLU or whoever to come in and stop them.

First National:



Couldn't find the Second. Its the Third but w/out that red stripe.

Third :



This is the true "battle flag" This was used by the Army of Northern Virginia. The western flag was slightly different.

ANV Flag



This is a Western Flag



If anything the state capitols should fly the Third National to be accurate. Thats my opinion.

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Why in heaven's name would you want that at your state capitol? Whenever they gaze onto the lawn, a quarter of South Carolina's citizens are reminded that they are still second class citizens in the minds of many. If any state professes to value its residents and treat them as equals, it cannot maintain such a deeply offensive anachronism. I also do not buy this historical argument. The swastika is a historical symbol. The flag of the Crusaders is historical. But no one would support keeping them in a prominent place, because no one would be so disrespectful of the rightfully held feelings of Jews and Muslims.

I also find your "homeland" argument ridiculous, StatesRights. Your homeland is the United States of America, one nation indivisible where all men are created equal, not the Confederacy. You cannot deny that your alleged homeland was created to perpetuate the most grievous wrong that ever happened in this country, and glossing over that reveals more about your compassion than it does about our history.

Take it down. Its time has passed.

It's exactly your "type" that have made southerners feel bad about their heritage for so many years. Obviously you know very little about history. Because if you actually took the time to pick up a book you would see that both blacks and whites fought under the C.S. Flag. I know you would deny it because you would hate to swallow the fact that, yes, blacks DID fight for the CSA and it was BEFORE the Northern Armies allowed it. I am an American, you are right, but I am a SOUTHERN American and have every right to be proud of what my people have done and accomplished for this nation.  Southerners, both black and white, built this nation and have had more troops die for the USA then any OTHER region in the U.S. If your ancestors hadn't been so hypocritical and had layed off of taxing the South to death, this little war situation would have never happened. So many of your rich elitists, who were so called "abolishonists" in those days built their fortunes on the slave trade and enslaving the Irish in their Hellhole factories.

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Yes, blacks did fight for the Confederacy. They did so once the South realized it needed everyone it could get. Just like they also worked in your mines, picked your fields, and made your armaments.

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They started forming regiments at the beginning of the war out of loyalty to their homeland.

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Bleeding Kansas? Oh, wasn't that when the "great" John Brown was catching infants with their pikes and killing women and children in their beds? If you think the North set out with the goal of freeing slaves you are fooling yourself. At least 90% of Northerners didn't give two craps about the black man. And as all undergarmets were made of cotton I am at least 99.9% sure they wore cotton which was imported from Egypt that was picked by the natives enslaved by the British.

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Angus and Dazzleman both make excellent points.

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I believe it was in the long run correct to abolish slavery. The manner in which it was done I disagree with. A slow method over 20-50 years would have had much less of a detrimental effect on the economy of the south.

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So a state has no right to decide what they put on their flag? Ridiculous. IF the people vote with a majority to change the flag and put the CS Flag on it, it's in their RIGHT as a state.

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Why should they remove the British Union Jack? Hawaii was discovered by the British. It had heavy British influence. Should we next remove the colors of our flag because those colors were adopted from the Union Jack. The Confederate Flag is developed from the british flag as well.

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Are you comparing the Confederate flag to the Nazi flag? Seems that you are since you are lumping the two together. More crimes have been committed under the Stars and Stripes then the Stars and Bars.

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Not all blacks percieve the Stars and Bars as a symbol of hate. Maybe up there in Wisconsin. But down here I know plenty of blacks that are NOT offended by me wearing or having CS Flags. I even know quite a few blacks who wear them themselves!

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I do not equate flying the Confederate flag with being Anti American. More Southerners have died in US wars then any other region of the nation. I am as proud to be an American as ever, and I have a CS Flag bumpersticker on my truck (you can call me a redneck, ha ha), and I have a CS TShirt that says, "Proud descendent of a Confederate Veteran".

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Taxes and Tariffs as well.

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I believe it was in the long run correct to abolish slavery. The manner in which it was done I disagree with. A slow method over 20-50 years would have had much less of a detrimental effect on the economy of the south.

So, freedom of blacks is less important than the economy of the South?

A lot of the problems the south had was due to the way the slaves were "liberated". A slow freeing would have not flooded the economy of the south w/jobless people. Blacks had quite a few freedoms on the plantation. And I believe racism wouldn't have gotten as vile if it had been a slow process.

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The Emancipation Proclamation didn't free a single slave! If you read it you will laugh and see that it was a political ploy to keep Britian and France out of the war. I believe a slow emancipation spread out over 30-50 years would have had less of an economic shock on the Southern economy. To say that all of slavery was "horrific" is a ridiculous statement based on all heart and no fact. To say the Southern Flag is all about racism and hate would be turning a blind eye to all the atrocities committed by the US Government under Old Glory.

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My only argument is that releasing 15 million people who are jobless into a population of 25 million and probably
8-9 million are looking for paid work would be devastating to any economy. If today 100 million people were dropped into the US all at once and looking for work our economy would be devastated and poverty would soar. My only positive belief about Lincoln is that if he lived I strongly believe slavery would have been ended gradually over a extended period of time.

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So, Lunar you belive that whole war was fought over slavery? Why do you deny the facts that preceded slavery? Such as unfair export tariffs and unfair taxes on the south? Don't you think they had a valid complaint that very little of their tax money sent to Washington was being used to build up THEIR infrastructure? Do you really think it's fair to judge the 1860s South by todays standards? If the north had so much compassion for the black race then why did the abolishonist movement represent only about 5% of the Northern population? If the South was into slavery so much why were slaves only owned by 2% of southerners?

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Maybe 4% but from 1776 or earlier up until 1860 WAS a build up to the Civil War. Disagreements between the North and South almost broke apart the constitutional convention.

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I dont mean to sound crude, but 96% of the South's history was not defined by this civil war crap. Who cares what the civil war was fought over- its over. Anyone still for shooting each other?

Though you say it is a small 4% and I agree that is a small percent the south HAS been defined by the civil war. Over 300k Southerners died in that war. Wounds run deep and take a LONG time to heal. If we are still like this in another 100 years then I can agree with you. But I still believe the war has an effect on those living. I mean most of us are only 2-3-4 Generations out of the war. I know some people whos' grandaddy fought in the war. I mean 140 years is really not a long time in the collective conscience of a few million. The way the south was decimated during and after the war and the way it was just left that way left a bad impression on those who lived through it. The so called "Reconstruction" reconstructed very little. Farming is a way of life whether one has a good or bad opinion of it. Though you say the changes have been a blessing on some points of that I would disagree. I think the many of thousands of farmers who have lost their livelyhood would disagree. Some may see the South as "behind" somehow, but I think that is to THEIR standards. Each region of the nation is different and diverse. What is good for New England might not be good for the west coast or the heartland.

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Plantation Owners were the Hollywood movie stars of today. A lot of southerners strived to be planters.

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Yes, but I still believe that the majority of the soldiers fought against a threat, whether real or percieved. They believed they were doing an honorable thing and that is why I respect what they did. I have no problem going to their grave markers and dedicating monuments to them and their spouses. I have no problem going out and reenacting the battles. Most of us in Southern heritage societies know that our flag has been hijacked by racial groups but we are very weak to really do anything about it. The sad fact is that the U.S. flag is used more by the Klan and the Neo-Nazis then the CS Flag is ever used.

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I agree with most of your post. I do not walk around with a chip on my shoulder or say "The south will rise again". I realize we are united again and am willing to move forward. I also think we should never forget the sacrifices of the brave men both North and South who fought for what they believed in. I see nothing wrong with those who wish to join genological socities such as the SCV or UDC or DAR or SUV or whatever. I disagree with you on two points. I believe that some of the issues of the war were NEVER solved and were swept under the rug and occasionaly rear their heads. States rights and Tariffs. I still believe secession is the right of a state as that issue has never been resolved either. Yes, I know New England basically started that idea. Daniel Webster advocated New England seceding from the US in the 1830s.