Israel

[dead0man]

Even here though, Israel is far from the only "bad guy".  You'd think the Pali's would be really pissed at their own brothers for turning on them.  You'd expect Jews and Arabs not get along, but Arabs and Arabs?  Why is the state of Israel the one that takes all the sh**t when there are obviously more guilty parties involved?

I didn't say Israel was the only 'bad guy' and I never have. Certainly the Arab League were guilty in these circumstances, but I wouldn't necessarily say they were 'more guilty' given that Israeli forces also forced many Palestinians off their land, something which I mentioned in the original post but chose not to quote as it wasn't relevant to the point I was making to Ben.

I meant "'other' guilty parties involved.".

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Agreed.

[dead0man]

Who knew it could be so much fun to watch a ship sink?

[dead0man]

One can only take so many Jews with comments that have absolutely nothing to do with Israel and Palestine...

What?

[dead0man]

Aye, that doesn't make sense.  It's like saying the holocaust was small potatoes.  I try pretty hard to not hold everybody on your side accountable for what some of the idiots on your side say.  Sadly, I'm not always successful.

[dead0man]

Aye, that doesn't make sense.  It's like saying the holocaust was small potatoes.  I try pretty hard to not hold everybody on your side accountable for what some of the idiots on your side say.  Sadly, I'm not always successful.

But where was the Palestinian responsibility for the Holocaust? Prove some and I'll recant everything I've said in this thread.

I've never made that argument, I already agreed it was silly.  It's silly in the same way somebody saying the holocaust was small potatoes is silly.  I'm not blaming the Pali's for it and I'm not saying that's WHY Israel deserves a state today.

[dead0man]

There is a disconnect why Jews got their homeland in palestine even though the genocide against them was conducted in Europe. I understand it was written in the bible and that Jews did live there a millenia ago, but is that really enough? The true reason is that the palestinians were powerless to stop the Zionists and it was because they had no true representation in 1948. It was unfair what was done to the palestinians in 1948 and the Zionists were not entitled to a single square inch of land. In a fair world a part of Germany/Poland would have been carved out for a Jewish homeland, but this world is not fair is it?

This times 100. Carving out a jewish state in the Rhineland would have been perfectly acceptable to me(Germans did try to kill them all so they do need to pay for their crimes) but not one in Palestine.

Genius!  Lets put all the Jews in the backyard of the people that just got finished trying to kill them all.  And right next door to the newest super power that was at the time, killing millions more Jews!  I'm guessing Jews in 1946 wanted to get pretty far away from Germans and Russians.  Their sparsly populated and technologically backward homeland was a much better option, to them, at the time.  You can argue against them moving back there, but arguing that it would have made more sense for them to stay in Germany is flat out retarded.


..and I'm German(-American).

[dead0man]

..and The Great War ended all future wars.

[dead0man]

I'm not saying it couldn't have been created out of Germany, I'm saying that it would be stupid to create in the back yard of the people that just got finished rounding you all up for easy killing.  Using hindsight, sure it might seem like the Jews would have been safer surrounded by sane, modern, western Germans instead of, well, a less sane and modern people, but they didn't get to use hindsight.  Germans didn't seem particularly sane to the Jews at the time anyway.  And it's not like the rest of Europe was Jew friendly.  If you're going to be surrounded by people that hate you, you might as well do it in your homeland, surrounded by people stuck in the 11th Century than in the middle of bunch of different modern nations with large Armies.

[dead0man]

And the Jews knew there were going to be "safeguards" in 1947?

[dead0man]

But they wouldn't kill each other, one side would win and one side would lose, they've tried that before with mixed results.  Wait, that is great idea!  But let's actually declare a winner when they fight next time, make the losers leave.  Maybe a new homeland for the loser in Germany?

[dead0man]

link

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I'm not sure of the logic behind releasing a brutal murderer for a couple of dead bodies, but I know I wouldn't want to be on the side of people who would put the same brutal murderer in military garb and parade him around an arena as if he was a war hero.

[dead0man]

The old "leave no man behind" creed I'd imagine.  Like with most things, when taken to the extreme it can get kind of silly.

[dead0man]

If Obama wins do you think Israel may feel emboldened to unilaterally take on Iran on its own?

No....clearly.  Obama supports Israel just as much as McCain does.  They (Israel) may do it independently of who is in the White House if they feel threatened...as would be their right.  It would have nothing (little?) to do with who was the sitting President of the US.

[dead0man]

Wow!  You hate Isreal more than ANYTHING ELSE!?

[dead0man]

I'd like a three state solution, any chance of that?  Or maybe a 2.5 state solution because I have doubts Gaza can be saved/governed....at least anytime soon.

[dead0man]

I own 2 tye-dyes, but never wear them out of the house.  I'm sure Pan-Arabism is the same way.

[dead0man]

Yeah, you may know it's dishonest propaganda, but the general idea of the propaganda is what you were after here.

[dead0man]

The old "your side does it too" retort.  Way to go with one of the classics brother.

[dead0man]

3 states?

[dead0man]

They're pretty good at exporting sympathy despite constantly blowing sh**t up, is there any value in that?

[dead0man]

I know why...and I bet we disagree.  It's funny though.  Clearly blowing sh**t up isn't working..in fact, it's constantly made things much worse for them.  Yet they keep blowing sh**t up.  The West Bank has gotten the message (for the most part), but not the dumbasses on the strip.  Everybody's friend Iran is still trying to send them more sh**t to blow up, thankfully they have been blowing up in route lately.

Clearly more violence will solve all their problems.

[dead0man]

Life improving in the West Bank.link

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Can we at least all agree that this is a good thing?