Kasich says if GOP doesnt evolve he will leave it

[Gustaf]

the republican party is going to be competetive again if people like kasich...who are pretty right-wing....are center-of-the-road-favorites for the post of candidate.

Yes, the GOP needed moderates like Ronald Reagan and the Class of 1980 to save it from oblivion after their 1974-76 losses.

Trump is NOT a "movement conservative", he's not an "Estabishment Republican", and he doesn't fit into any position mold the GOP has.  Yet he won the nomination by being different.  I believe that Trump, for whatever he has done or will do, has brought to an end the "You're a RINO!" process that was supposed to result in the coronation of Ted Cruz this year.  Big Government Conservative Protectionists nominated Trump, and they are a MAJOR constituency in the GOP.  And they're not going to meekly accept future nomination processes where the choice is one of who's the free-est trader, free-est marketer, lowest taxer, smallest governmenter, etc.  Trump's nomination exposed the fact that the GOP is NOT a "small government" party, and one of the results of this is that folks like Kasich (who is more in line with Trump on issues than with "movement conservatives"; his opposition to Trump is purely personal) will fare better in future Presidential nominating contests.

There's one small issue with this: where do the liberal Republicans go? The business-friendly, but (relatively) socially moderate ones who got behind Romney, for instance? Do they become Democrats? Libertarians?

There are no "liberal" Republicans any more then there are any "conservative" Democrats.  There are no Jacob Javits/Ed Brooke types in the GOP, nor are there any James Eastland/Harry F. Byrd figures in the Democratic Party. 

There are Bill Weld-type Republicans who are socially liberal, small-government types.  Over time, they will become Democrats, much as TheShadowyAbyss has.  It would be a rational choice; the Democratic Party under the Clintons, then and now, has embraced a combination of social liberalism and Wall Street-type economic conservatism that these folks are comfortable with.  And the Democratic Party will accommodate them. 

At the same time, many working class Democrats who are supporting Trump will become full-bore Republicans.  Many have already, but there are a number in the Rust Belt that will switch to the GOP due to agreement on social issues, immigration, and trade.  How much of this happens will depend on the degree to which the GOP actively opposes the sort of Globalism that has shafted these folks.

Of course, the GOP, itself, doesn't get it.  I'm watching Maria Bartiromo and Jim Nicholson on FOX right now, and they're talking about how unions won't allow the VA to fire people, how it's like the schools, where prinicpals can't fire "bad teachers" and put "the best players on the field".  The middle class was built on a social contract that offered a degree of stability to folks who worked hard and faithfully.  Is a job, or a career, really a matter of trying out for the varsity team every year, and getting cut when you're not as good as the kid who moved in from another district and is a step faster?  Or the coach's son/daughter?  Trump gets this more than the rest of the GOP, and, in no small measure, it explains some of the disconnect between Trump and the Social Darwinists who have taken the GOP to defeat repeatedly.

The bolded part is obviously not true. Kasich lives in the real world and Trump does not - they are very far apart on most issues. The crazy conservatives are just as crazy as ever - what Trump has shown is simply that most of them aren't really conservative, they just use a rhetoric to cover up a nasty, angry racism which is their main driver. Kasich doesn't seem like he will want to speak to that so he has no chance to win anything. 

The problem for the Republican party is that its primary process is dominated by a base of angry, crazy fascists that constitute a minority in a general election (and a shrinking minority at that). It remains unclear to me how exactly they're gonna fix that.

[PeteB]

If he is getting accused of being both a RINO and a far right conservative by Atlas posters, Kasich is doing something right.

And yes, he is right about the need to reform the GOP. The truth is that if the GOP had any brains, he would now be the nominee and running 10 points ahead of Clinton.

Considering Clinton has been called everything from "left-wing" and "pandering to the Bernie far left" to "conservative neocon" and "far-right" on here, what does that make her?

A centrist?

It was more a rhetorical question for PeteB, who seems to think that being placed all over the political spectrum by various forum members automatically means one must be "doing something right".

Well, let me address it then .

1. Kasich is not "all over the place". He is a moderate conservative who believes in compromise, something sadly lacking in today's scheming and ego driven politicians. He also believes in fairness over ideology; he showed that by allowing Obamacare in OH, even though rejecting it would have been much more politically opportune for him.

2. At the same time, he has some deeply held principles, which are best illustrated by his not endorsing, supporting or helping Trump in any way. And note that he was consistent in this and did not have an "aha" moment, once the video came out. It would have been so easy to just do what Rubio did - endorse Trump, and then lay low; he did NOT do that - in fact he clearly said he will not be voting for Trump.

3. As for Clinton, I do believe that she is a moderate Democrat, who is also capable of compromise. At her best, she accepted Sanders' idea to do something about college tuition; as much as it seems like a left wing policy, it makes sense in the long run and cuts to the core of fairness and smart long term planning.

4. The problem she has is that she is secretive, distrustful and scheming, to her own detriment. At her worst (and I will skip Benghazi and email servers ), she is pretending that she won't support TPP for purely populist reasons, when in fact she is a freetrader, and will probably eventually push through some version of TPP.

And there is your key difference between the two.

But, as I said, all this is purely academic and a hypothetical matchup. Clinton is fortunate enough to instead have a court jester and a reality TV wannabe star running against her!

[Green Line]

Where's he gonna go?  The Democrats won't take him.  He's not going anywhere.

[Mallow]

If he is getting accused of being both a RINO and a far right conservative by Atlas posters, Kasich is doing something right.

And yes, he is right about the need to reform the GOP. The truth is that if the GOP had any brains, he would now be the nominee and running 10 points ahead of Clinton.

Considering Clinton has been called everything from "left-wing" and "pandering to the Bernie far left" to "conservative neocon" and "far-right" on here, what does that make her?

A centrist?

It was more a rhetorical question for PeteB, who seems to think that being placed all over the political spectrum by various forum members automatically means one must be "doing something right".

Well, let me address it then ...

I'm not sure you got my point... it was a rhetorical question for a reason.

My point is, Atlasians' opinions of where a candidate falls on the political spectrum are completely unrelated to whether or not a candidate is "good" (or "doing something right").

[GeorgiaModerate]

If he is getting accused of being both a RINO and a far right conservative by Atlas posters, Kasich is doing something right.

And yes, he is right about the need to reform the GOP. The truth is that if the GOP had any brains, he would now be the nominee and running 10 points ahead of Clinton.

Considering Clinton has been called everything from "left-wing" and "pandering to the Bernie far left" to "conservative neocon" and "far-right" on here, what does that make her?

A centrist?

It was more a rhetorical question for PeteB, who seems to think that being placed all over the political spectrum by various forum members automatically means one must be "doing something right".

Well, let me address it then ...

I'm not sure you got my point... it was a rhetorical question for a reason.

My point is, Atlasians' opinions of where a candidate falls on the political spectrum are completely unrelated to whether or not a candidate is "good" (or "doing something right").

Maybe "effective" is the right term?

[PeteB]

If he is getting accused of being both a RINO and a far right conservative by Atlas posters, Kasich is doing something right.

And yes, he is right about the need to reform the GOP. The truth is that if the GOP had any brains, he would now be the nominee and running 10 points ahead of Clinton.

Considering Clinton has been called everything from "left-wing" and "pandering to the Bernie far left" to "conservative neocon" and "far-right" on here, what does that make her?

A centrist?

It was more a rhetorical question for PeteB, who seems to think that being placed all over the political spectrum by various forum members automatically means one must be "doing something right".

Well, let me address it then ...

I'm not sure you got my point... it was a rhetorical question for a reason.

My point is, Atlasians' opinions of where a candidate falls on the political spectrum are completely unrelated to whether or not a candidate is "good" (or "doing something right").

Oh, I understood your point - hence my non-rhetorical answer.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Where's he gonna go?  The Democrats won't take him.  He's not going anywhere.

Create a new party along with the rest of center right or old school republicans . Once the GOP splits into two so will be Dems as they can't scare the Bernie wing of their party into supporting their Candidate and we may have real democracy where every ones views are covered . A leftist party a center left party a center right party and right wing party

[Fuzzy Bear]

If he is getting accused of being both a RINO and a far right conservative by Atlas posters, Kasich is doing something right.

And yes, he is right about the need to reform the GOP. The truth is that if the GOP had any brains, he would now be the nominee and running 10 points ahead of Clinton.

Considering Clinton has been called everything from "left-wing" and "pandering to the Bernie far left" to "conservative neocon" and "far-right" on here, what does that make her?

A centrist?

Only in the sense that Donald Trump is a "centrist".  She's a moderate on economics, but an ultra-liberal on social issues.

[Fuzzy Bear]

The Trump wing of the GOP must be defeated and destroyed at all costs.

You are not even a Republican any more. What do you care?

Because they are toxic to our American ideals, of inclusiveness, of fairness, and of the inalienability of human rights. Trump has abandoned all of these, and if one of our major parties follows suit, we're done for.

Hillary, on the other hand, has abandoned the concept of the Rule of Law, both in her personal conduct in office and on immigration policy, where she refuses to enforce the laws as currently written.

"Inclusiveness" in Hillarese is a concept that excludes religious and social conservatives; their views are to be disregarded and their churches and institutions are to be infiltrated and the viewpoints of those institutions to be bent to her liking. 

That Hillary does these things by e-mail, using clean language and good manners doesn't make them "American".

[Since I'm the mad scientist proclaimed by myself]

The Trump wing of the GOP must be defeated and destroyed at all costs.

You are not even a Republican any more. What do you care?

Because they are toxic to our American ideals, of inclusiveness, of fairness, and of the inalienability of human rights. Trump has abandoned all of these, and if one of our major parties follows suit, we're done for.

Hillary, on the other hand, has abandoned the concept of the Rule of Law, both in her personal conduct in office and on immigration policy, where she refuses to enforce the laws as currently written.

"Inclusiveness" in Hillarese is a concept that excludes religious and social conservatives; their views are to be disregarded and their churches and institutions are to be infiltrated and the viewpoints of those institutions to be bent to her liking. 

That Hillary does these things by e-mail, using clean language and good manners doesn't make them "American".

Real inclusivness is not letting the gays get married because a few bible bashers think its icky.

[rafta_rafta]

Real religious freedom is letting businesses discriminate against gay people, schools discriminate against trans people and robbing women off the freedom of choice.

[hopper]

If he is getting accused of being both a RINO and a far right conservative by Atlas posters, Kasich is doing something right.

And yes, he is right about the need to reform the GOP. The truth is that if the GOP had any brains, he would now be the nominee and running 10 points ahead of Clinton.

Considering Clinton has been called everything from "left-wing" and "pandering to the Bernie far left" to "conservative neocon" and "far-right" on here, what does that make her?

A centrist?

Only in the sense that Donald Trump is a "centrist".  She's a moderate on economics, but an ultra-liberal on social issues.

Trump-he is more in-line with Democrats on issues like trade and entitlement reform well don't reform entitlements is what Trump and Democrats agree on. He sounds like a far-right wacko with his views on Muslims and Hispanics though.

Hillary is not moderate on economics she is liberal  since she favors putting coal miners out of work and a 15.00 dollar an hour minimum wage. She is protectionist like Trump and Sanders on trade. The only thing Hillary is centrist or maybe even right-wing on is on foreign policy.

[hopper]

The Trump wing of the GOP must be defeated and destroyed at all costs.

You are not even a Republican any more. What do you care?

Because they are toxic to our American ideals, of inclusiveness, of fairness, and of the inalienability of human rights. Trump has abandoned all of these, and if one of our major parties follows suit, we're done for.

Hillary, on the other hand, has abandoned the concept of the Rule of Law, both in her personal conduct in office and on immigration policy, where she refuses to enforce the laws as currently written.

"Inclusiveness" in Hillarese is a concept that excludes religious and social conservatives; their views are to be disregarded and their churches and institutions are to be infiltrated and the viewpoints of those institutions to be bent to her liking. 

That Hillary does these things by e-mail, using clean language and good manners doesn't make them "American".

Real inclusivness is not letting the gays get married because a few bible bashers think its icky.

Gay Marriage hasn't been an issue in this election. This election has been more based on economics and foreign policy with ISIS.

[hopper]

the republican party is going to be competetive again if people like kasich...who are pretty right-wing....are center-of-the-road-favorites for the post of candidate.

Yes, the GOP needed moderates like Ronald Reagan and the Class of 1980 to save it from oblivion after their 1974-76 losses.

Trump is NOT a "movement conservative", he's not an "Estabishment Republican", and he doesn't fit into any position mold the GOP has.  Yet he won the nomination by being different.  I believe that Trump, for whatever he has done or will do, has brought to an end the "You're a RINO!" process that was supposed to result in the coronation of Ted Cruz this year.  Big Government Conservative Protectionists nominated Trump, and they are a MAJOR constituency in the GOP.  And they're not going to meekly accept future nomination processes where the choice is one of who's the free-est trader, free-est marketer, lowest taxer, smallest governmenter, etc.  Trump's nomination exposed the fact that the GOP is NOT a "small government" party, and one of the results of this is that folks like Kasich (who is more in line with Trump on issues than with "movement conservatives"; his opposition to Trump is purely personal) will fare better in future Presidential nominating contests.

Well Romney ran as Small Government Conservative and he lost.

[OSR stands with Israel]

If he is getting accused of being both a RINO and a far right conservative by Atlas posters, Kasich is doing something right.

And yes, he is right about the need to reform the GOP. The truth is that if the GOP had any brains, he would now be the nominee and running 10 points ahead of Clinton.

Considering Clinton has been called everything from "left-wing" and "pandering to the Bernie far left" to "conservative neocon" and "far-right" on here, what does that make her?

A centrist?

Only in the sense that Donald Trump is a "centrist".  She's a moderate on economics, but an ultra-liberal on social issues.

Bill was moderate to center right on economic issues. Hillary was moderate to center left on economic issues but now is clearly more leftist then moderate on economic issues.

[RINO Tom]

It's so annoying because it fits the agenda of both elitist liberals (again, that term should be an oxymoron) and deplorables like Fuzzy Bear, but business/upscale/small government REPUBLICANS aren't becoming Democrats in any larger numbers than you Nazis became Democrats after we nominated Romney.

[yawa]

It's time for more or less decent people to leave GOP. Or Trump should leave it to form his own party with his backers. The latter variant is more just, I guess. It was not Trump  who founded The Republican Party.