WV: Manchin to stay in Senate, not run for gov.

[IceSpear]

Aaaaand, the Democrats have one less seat to worry about.

I'm not convinced he's 100% safe in 2018. He was supposed to win in an enormous landslide in 2010, yet it ended up being a real race against a perennial joke candidate like Raese. History could repeat itself.

That said, it definitely starts as likely D.

[IceSpear]

I don't know what we would do without Joe Manchin in the Senate urging the party to the right.

This is such an idiotic statement and is entirely representative of how how some democrats think their senate majority is going to appear through ignoring huge swaths of the country. Anyway, this statement isn't even right because it depends on the issue whether or not Manchin is "urging the party to the right":

He supports expanding Social Security, allying with Elizabeth Warren in the process.

He opposes "free trade" agreements.

You'll be surprised by many of these issue groups ratings, including 100% by NARAL in 2011, and 58% by the League of Conservation Voters. He has also been ranked consistently high among labor unions.

There's also, you know, the whole Manchin-Toomey thing in which he did more to promote sensible gun control than any of the democratic politicians that you probably like.

Anyway, it just makes me mad how underrated Manchin is by many on the left. Democrats should all be incredibly appreciative that he is helping us achieve the majority again.

This, I don't get all the Manchin hate around here.

And yet, he's objectively to the right of Hillary who is constantly bashed here as a right wing neoliberal...

[IceSpear]

I don't know what we would do without Joe Manchin in the Senate urging the party to the right.

This is such an idiotic statement and is entirely representative of how how some democrats think their senate majority is going to appear through ignoring huge swaths of the country. Anyway, this statement isn't even right because it depends on the issue whether or not Manchin is "urging the party to the right":

He supports expanding Social Security, allying with Elizabeth Warren in the process.

He opposes "free trade" agreements.

You'll be surprised by many of these issue groups ratings, including 100% by NARAL in 2011, and 58% by the League of Conservation Voters. He has also been ranked consistently high among labor unions.

There's also, you know, the whole Manchin-Toomey thing in which he did more to promote sensible gun control than any of the democratic politicians that you probably like.

Anyway, it just makes me mad how underrated Manchin is by many on the left. Democrats should all be incredibly appreciative that he is helping us achieve the majority again.

This, I don't get all the Manchin hate around here.

And yet, he's objectively to the right of Hillary who is constantly bashed here as a right wing neoliberal...

Manchin's not running for President, he is running for Senate in West Virginia.

I'm aware. I just find it amusing that this site loves to fawn over people like Manchin, Rahall, Barrow, Murphy, Strickland (the latter two of which are running in states you probably need to win to win the presidency), yet consider Hillary Clinton, who is to the left of all of them, a right winger.

[IceSpear]

I don't know what we would do without Joe Manchin in the Senate urging the party to the right.

This is such an idiotic statement and is entirely representative of how how some democrats think their senate majority is going to appear through ignoring huge swaths of the country. Anyway, this statement isn't even right because it depends on the issue whether or not Manchin is "urging the party to the right":

He supports expanding Social Security, allying with Elizabeth Warren in the process.

He opposes "free trade" agreements.

You'll be surprised by many of these issue groups ratings, including 100% by NARAL in 2011, and 58% by the League of Conservation Voters. He has also been ranked consistently high among labor unions.

There's also, you know, the whole Manchin-Toomey thing in which he did more to promote sensible gun control than any of the democratic politicians that you probably like.

Anyway, it just makes me mad how underrated Manchin is by many on the left. Democrats should all be incredibly appreciative that he is helping us achieve the majority again.

This, I don't get all the Manchin hate around here.

And yet, he's objectively to the right of Hillary who is constantly bashed here as a right wing neoliberal...

Manchin's not running for President, he is running for Senate in West Virginia.

I'm aware. I just find it amusing that this site loves to fawn over people like Manchin, Rahall, Barrow, Murphy, Strickland (the latter two of which are running in states you probably need to win to win the presidency), yet consider Hillary Clinton, who is to the left of all of them, a right winger.

Hillary does NOT need to win Florida to win the Presidency. You give her all the Obama states minus  FL and CO (she can't win CO), and she's still at 294 electoral votes. Taking away Iowa still leaves her with 288. Heck, at this point you can take away Ohio and she's still at the bare minimum 270. This is why the republicans need VA, WI, NH, or PA.

Thus why I said "probably." Any Democrat is going to contest both OH and FL and would be in great danger if they lost both of them. If Strickland and Murphy are "liberal enough" for these states, then Hillary certainly is as well.

[IceSpear]

I don't know what we would do without Joe Manchin in the Senate urging the party to the right.

This is such an idiotic statement and is entirely representative of how how some democrats think their senate majority is going to appear through ignoring huge swaths of the country. Anyway, this statement isn't even right because it depends on the issue whether or not Manchin is "urging the party to the right":

He supports expanding Social Security, allying with Elizabeth Warren in the process.

He opposes "free trade" agreements.

You'll be surprised by many of these issue groups ratings, including 100% by NARAL in 2011, and 58% by the League of Conservation Voters. He has also been ranked consistently high among labor unions.

There's also, you know, the whole Manchin-Toomey thing in which he did more to promote sensible gun control than any of the democratic politicians that you probably like.

Anyway, it just makes me mad how underrated Manchin is by many on the left. Democrats should all be incredibly appreciative that he is helping us achieve the majority again.

This, I don't get all the Manchin hate around here.

And yet, he's objectively to the right of Hillary who is constantly bashed here as a right wing neoliberal...

Manchin's not running for President, he is running for Senate in West Virginia.

I'm aware. I just find it amusing that this site loves to fawn over people like Manchin, Rahall, Barrow, Murphy, Strickland (the latter two of which are running in states you probably need to win to win the presidency), yet consider Hillary Clinton, who is to the left of all of them, a right winger.

- No one here has heaped praise on Rahall.  I doubt most here even like him, I know I don't

- Barrow was cool because he kept winning seemingly unwinnable races is heavily gerrymandered blood-red districts and consistently had some of the best political ads in the country.

- Most folks here seem to hate Manchin, but I like him because he's way more liberal than we have any right to expect a West Virginia Senator to be, plus he took a really politically risky stand on an issue that is very important to me (gun control).

- Patrick Murphy is literally the only FL Democrat interested in running who can win that seat and is such an excellent candidate that he gets significant leeway on the issues.  He is the most liberal candidate who can win.  You can bet he's well to the left of any of the Republicans.  Incidentally, I've said for a while that I expect Hillary to overperform generic D in much of the state (one exception being the panhandle).

- Strickland is pretty liberal by any objective definition.  That's simply a fact.  Are there a few issues where he's decidedly to the right of Hillary (ex: clean energy)?  Sure.  But he's generally pretty liberal, he's an A-list candidate, and whether you agree with his views or not, he really comes across as a good guy who is in politics for the right reasons (although you obviously never know for sure with these guys).  Hillary isn't the best fit for Ohio, stylistically or ideologically.  We're a very pro-union state that tends to like Democrats who run as economic populists who will take on corperate interests and fight for blue-collar Americans and the middle class.  Having one or two non-economic issues where the Dem is perceived as being a little a bit to the right of the national party is a definite plus in terms of electability, but not a requirement.  Additionally, a politician who is percieved as too ambitious, ruthless, unlikable, or just plain not nice then they're going to rub a lot of Ohioans the wrong way (especially outside the Cleveland media market).  Folks here wave good morning to their neighbors, place a high value on treating others respectfully, etc.  "Midwest nice" is very much a thing in Ohio (especially in places like Franklin County).  Ohio is not unwinnable for Hillary by any means and she probably isn't going to underperform here as much as she will in Colorado or Iowa, but she's not a great fit either.  No matter what the results are, unless the Republican nominee completely implodes, Strickland will probably run ahead of Hillary.

TL;DR: No one has really done anything that could be considered "fawning" over any of those candidates, so please stop straw-manning.

I recall Rahall getting a lot of praise and a strong FF vote in the "opinion of" thread concerning him. Yeah there are some people who hate Manchin for being too conservative, but I'm fairly sure the majority likes him.

Anyway, I pretty much agree with everything you said (with the exception of Hillary being a weak candidate in Ohio, she's always been strong in the Midwest.) You don't need to convince me to support these guys, I already do. I just think it's interesting how the cutting off the nose to spite the face philosophy gets trotted out a LOT more with Hillary Clinton than any other candidate, even those that are legitimately conservative/center-right.