Texas: two gunmen shot dead after opening fire at Mohammed cartoon contest (user search)
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  Texas: two gunmen shot dead after opening fire at Mohammed cartoon contest (search mode)
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Author Topic: Texas: two gunmen shot dead after opening fire at Mohammed cartoon contest  (Read 8956 times)
cinyc
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« on: May 04, 2015, 02:51:30 PM »

This isn't a weird concept to me because I respect the concerns of human beings, even if they're rooted in experiences or theological/philosophical/whatever schemas that I don't understand.

It's good to hear that you respect the rights of religious bakers not to bake cakes for gay marriages and would equally condemn art like the piss Christ that offends Christians.

You know what's offensive to me? Anyone who would shut down free speech because someone might be "offended" by what they hear.  They, and those"offended" need to grow up and realize that there are people who won't always agree with them.
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cinyc
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Posts: 12,720


« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2015, 08:47:22 PM »

This isn't a weird concept to me because I respect the concerns of human beings, even if they're rooted in experiences or theological/philosophical/whatever schemas that I don't understand.

It's good to hear that you respect the rights of religious bakers not to bake cakes for gay marriages and would equally condemn art like the piss Christ that offends Christians.

You know what's offensive to me? Anyone who would shut down free speech because someone might be "offended" by what they hear.  They, and those"offended" need to grow up and realize that there are people who won't always agree with them.

Let's say I call someone an @$$hole and they punch me in the face. It was wrong for them to punch me in the face, but it also wasn't very prudent of me to call them an @$$hole. This is one of those situations.

I think we can all agree that wantonly firing a gun at people in a non-defensive situation is wrong - it's also against the law.

Having a "Draw Mohammed" convention is not against the law (at least not in this country). That doesn't mean it's a "wise" thing to do.

Context matters and reminds me of a lot of the comments following the Charlie Hebdo shootings about the problem of "punching downward." Historically in Western art, literature and culture, the Church was a target of satire and parody. That made, and makes, sense. Christianity is our Establishment. Even in America, where it's not the official religion, it is one of the edifices of our culture that jesters and freethinkers will always "punch upward" at to question norms and hurl spears at those in power.

That kind of satire isn't funny when it's directed at Islam. It's just mean. Islam isn't part of the Establishment in the West. You're not mocking corrupt clergy, hypocritical pastors embezzling money and having affairs, or self-righteous politicians wearing their "Faith/Family/Freedom" on their sleeves. You're mocking people who by and large are living in a country they don't have a social support structure in and who, particularly in Europe, are socially and economically marginalized. You're not sticking it to The Man. You're spitting on the sort of people who drive you to the airport and give you your change at the gas station.

Sorry.  You and the other "punching downward" Charlie Hedbo apologists are simply wrong.  Everything is fair game for satire.  There are no protected classes when it comes to comedy.  You shouldn't get special privileges against criticism by being a member of a special "minority" group, with there being some unpublished, ever-changing hierarchy of which groups are more special than others.  Everyone is in a minority group in their own way, including religious Christians who you have no problem lampooning.  The sacred cows of "progressives" like yourself aren't everyone's sacred cow.

Just because you don't find satire funny when it is directed at Islam doesn't make it impermissible or imprudent.  Nobody is "spitting on the sort of people who drive you to the airport".  They are spitting on religious extremists' call to murder those who don't agree with them and their religion and convert to Islam.  Those people are "The Man" in parts of the Arab world and are more than fair game for criticism and satire.  Not that you have to be "The Man" to be subject to criticism, anyway.
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