Calvinism Is Back

[DC Al Fine]

Article fails to actually make a case Calvinism is on the rise. The quoted statistics don't prove that.

I concur. I see no popular upswing in our churches. To the extent that we're on the rise, its mostly due to high birth and retention rates. That said I have noticed an uptick in Calvinist ministers leaving Baptist seminaries.

[DC Al Fine]

The extent to which Calvinism is 'back' is also the extent to which it was never really gone. I don't think the size or influence of mainline Calvinist denominations has really fluctuated all that much in recent years (DC Al Fine or Mung Beans or somebody can correct me on this if I'm wrong about that), and as Tweed mentioned generalized conservative evangelicalism is prone to a sort of cyclical theological faddishness.

There's a cycle between Calvinism and Arminianism within the Baptist movement. Calvinism is definitely on the upswing right now. You're right though. There isn't any massive growth in the Reformed faith. We're growing yes, but it's slow.

The way I understand it, God, in Calvinism, simply plays Duck, Duck, Goose with people ("You go to Heaven, you go to Heaven, you go to Hell, you go to Heaven..."), and we can do literally nothing to influence His decision in one way or the other. I'm not trying to be a dick, but what exactly draws people to Calvinism? Is it the idea that you can commit as many sins as you want, because you just may be one of the Elect, and, if you're not, you had a good run anyway? I'm very curious.

I'm sure that is a part of it to some degree, but Calvinism has many other ideas (democracy within the church, etc) that is not within Lutheranism (the Lutheran Church has a bishop system).

Another is that I expect that the people drawn to Calvinism are likely to believe that they are part of the elect and aren't particularly looking for a "get out of Hell free" card to commit as many sins as they want .  One of the attractive features of Calvinism compared to Arminianism is that you don't have to worry about falling out of grace.  God won't let you do that.

I'm a bit surprised by socialisthoosier's criticism. Usually we're attacked for being Puritan prudes . Ernest is correct though, election and perseverance of the saints are the most comforting parts of our theology.

[DC Al Fine]

The extent to which Calvinism is 'back' is also the extent to which it was never really gone. I don't think the size or influence of mainline Calvinist denominations has really fluctuated all that much in recent years (DC Al Fine or Mung Beans or somebody can correct me on this if I'm wrong about that), and as Tweed mentioned generalized conservative evangelicalism is prone to a sort of cyclical theological faddishness.

There's a cycle between Calvinism and Arminianism within the Baptist movement. Calvinism is definitely on the upswing right now. You're right though. There isn't any massive growth in the Reformed faith. We're growing yes, but it's slow.

The way I understand it, God, in Calvinism, simply plays Duck, Duck, Goose with people ("You go to Heaven, you go to Heaven, you go to Hell, you go to Heaven..."), and we can do literally nothing to influence His decision in one way or the other. I'm not trying to be a dick, but what exactly draws people to Calvinism? Is it the idea that you can commit as many sins as you want, because you just may be one of the Elect, and, if you're not, you had a good run anyway? I'm very curious.

I'm sure that is a part of it to some degree, but Calvinism has many other ideas (democracy within the church, etc) that is not within Lutheranism (the Lutheran Church has a bishop system).

Another is that I expect that the people drawn to Calvinism are likely to believe that they are part of the elect and aren't particularly looking for a "get out of Hell free" card to commit as many sins as they want .  One of the attractive features of Calvinism compared to Arminianism is that you don't have to worry about falling out of grace.  God won't let you do that.

I'm a bit surprised by socialisthoosier's criticism. Usually we're attacked for being Puritan prudes . Ernest is correct though, election and perseverance of the saints are the most comforting parts of our theology.

How do we know who the elect are?

We don't know. Well, you can know your own salvation, but it's not like I can tell who is saved or who is damned.

[DC Al Fine]

The extent to which Calvinism is 'back' is also the extent to which it was never really gone. I don't think the size or influence of mainline Calvinist denominations has really fluctuated all that much in recent years (DC Al Fine or Mung Beans or somebody can correct me on this if I'm wrong about that), and as Tweed mentioned generalized conservative evangelicalism is prone to a sort of cyclical theological faddishness.

There's a cycle between Calvinism and Arminianism within the Baptist movement. Calvinism is definitely on the upswing right now. You're right though. There isn't any massive growth in the Reformed faith. We're growing yes, but it's slow.

The way I understand it, God, in Calvinism, simply plays Duck, Duck, Goose with people ("You go to Heaven, you go to Heaven, you go to Hell, you go to Heaven..."), and we can do literally nothing to influence His decision in one way or the other. I'm not trying to be a dick, but what exactly draws people to Calvinism? Is it the idea that you can commit as many sins as you want, because you just may be one of the Elect, and, if you're not, you had a good run anyway? I'm very curious.

I'm sure that is a part of it to some degree, but Calvinism has many other ideas (democracy within the church, etc) that is not within Lutheranism (the Lutheran Church has a bishop system).

Another is that I expect that the people drawn to Calvinism are likely to believe that they are part of the elect and aren't particularly looking for a "get out of Hell free" card to commit as many sins as they want .  One of the attractive features of Calvinism compared to Arminianism is that you don't have to worry about falling out of grace.  God won't let you do that.

I'm a bit surprised by socialisthoosier's criticism. Usually we're attacked for being Puritan prudes . Ernest is correct though, election and perseverance of the saints are the most comforting parts of our theology.

How do we know who the elect are?

We don't know. Well, you can know your own salvation, but it's not like I can tell who is saved or who is damned.

That seems like a bizarre way to live life.

How is that bizarre? It seems far more bizarre to think that any human would have the knowledge or power required to judge the eternal fate of another, a task that I would expect most religious people to reserve to their god(s).

Well, I meant more of the idea that certain people are automatically saved or dammed, and that you have no idea who is which, and that you can't do a thing (good deeds, for example) to change that.

Calvinism embraces the idea that there is no such thing as a good person because committing one sin is tantamount to committing all of them so the gossiper is just as damned by his actions as the murderer, therefore no one is saved by virtue of his/her actions.  Only God can decide who is and isn't chosen to be saved and there's not much (anything) you can do to sway that judgement.

It can be a very bleak idea, but the dyed in the wool Calvinist would say that it doesn't matter if it's bleak or not, it's how it works.

Yes and no. Total depravity is the idea that our sinful nature touches every facet of our being, even our good works.

Remember when Jesus says "And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others."? This is a good example. Confession and praising God are good things, but Jesus is calling them out because they are doing those things to look good and pious in the eyes of men. Therefore they are violating the first commandment by putting themselves before God. The hypocrites' sinful nature sullies his otherwise good works.

This ties in with the Calvinist idea that all sin is just a violation of the first commandment in one way or another. So while we don't think the gossiper commits the same evil act as the murderer, they have the same evil intention; putting something else ahead of God in their lives.