Long Island statehood

[Paul Kemp]

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http://smithtown.patch.com/articles/pols-resurrect-long-island-statehood-chatter

This seems to come up every three years or so. Still, it's an absolutely absurd idea.

[© tweed]

tossup / lean Romney

[jimrtex]

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http://smithtown.patch.com/articles/pols-resurrect-long-island-statehood-chatter

This seems to come up every three years or so. Still, it's an absolutely absurd idea.

Why not the whole island?

[Paul Kemp]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

http://smithtown.patch.com/articles/pols-resurrect-long-island-statehood-chatter

This seems to come up every three years or so. Still, it's an absolutely absurd idea.

Why not the whole island?

Some forget that Brooklyn and Queens are also on the island, even state legislators apparently.

[ag]

The "reasonable" division of NY would be into Upstate and Downstate: LI, NYC and Westchester belong together.

[muon2]

The "reasonable" division of NY would be into Upstate and Downstate: LI, NYC and Westchester belong together.

I'd add Rockland as well. It's mostly NYC suburbs, and is part of downstate. That would make downstate equal to about 63% of the state's population.

[Verily]

The most logical place to divide the state is at the northern boundary of the Poughkeepsie-based MSA. (The border would zigzag from where the NY, NJ, and PA boundaries meet to where the NY, CT, and MA boundaries.)

Not that I'd want to live in a state that could be described as "Indiana if it bordered New England at one end and NYC at the other instead of Chicago and the South."

Politically, Upstate would be more like Minnesota/Wisconsin than like Indiana (obviously not like either demographically, but that's not easy to model).

[DrScholl]

What is never really thought about with these proposals is the economic and tax sustainability. Even a minor split, such as with a county, the costs are high. When La Paz County, Arizona split from Yuma County, the state had to support the county for awhile. The federal government would end up supporting a split of any state.

[muon2]

The most logical place to divide the state is at the northern boundary of the Poughkeepsie-based MSA. (The border would zigzag from where the NY, NJ, and PA boundaries meet to where the NY, CT, and MA boundaries.)

Not that I'd want to live in a state that could be described as "Indiana if it bordered New England at one end and NYC at the other instead of Chicago and the South."

I've always found that the Poughkeepsie area was more like upstate.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Cutting out NYC, LI, Westchester, and Rockland, how would NY have voted in 2008?

[jimrtex]

The "reasonable" division of NY would be into Upstate and Downstate: LI, NYC and Westchester belong together.

I'd add Rockland as well. It's mostly NYC suburbs, and is part of downstate. That would make downstate equal to about 63% of the state's population.

If you split into insular New York, and mainland New York, divided by the Harlem and East rivers, it would be a 50-50 split.

[Verily]

I did some quick calculations, and Obama's margin in Upstate New York (no LI, NYC, Westchester, or Rockland) was about +8. Excluding Dutchess, Orange, and Putnam counties doesn't make a large difference. (For comparison, Obama's actual margin in NY was +27.)

So it's close to neither Wisconsin (+14) nor Indiana (+1). It's closest to VA (+6) or CO (+9)

I wasn't precise enough to make this determination, but Obama's margin in Upstate New York might be closer to his national average (+7.26, according to Wikipedia) than his margin in any actual state.

I'm pretty sure I calculated this once and got Upstate as being between 55% and 56% Obama (basically the same definition of Upstate). Are you sure your numbers are right?

[cinyc]

The "reasonable" division of NY would be into Upstate and Downstate: LI, NYC and Westchester belong together.

I'd add Rockland as well. It's mostly NYC suburbs, and is part of downstate. That would make downstate equal to about 63% of the state's population.

A split will never happen for various reasons, but if it did, these days, the most logical split would be along TV market lines.   So in addition to Rockland and Westchester, the Downstate part should include Dutchess, Orange, Ulster and Sullivan counties.  That gives the Downstate part some growing exurbs and additional room for growth.  It also puts a number of the New York City reservoirs in the Downstate part instead of almost all the Catskill/Delaware reservoirs in a different state.

[Nichlemn]

If Upstate separated, it's not so clear that it would vote the same at the Presidential level. I think quite a few people vote Republican at the local level to counter NYC, and some of this spills over to the Presidential level.

As for whether this is a good idea, I'm not sure, but I'm almost certain it's a good idea for at least some counties and/or states. Why? Because even if we grant that states and counties were sensibly drawn when they came into existence, it has in some cases been hundreds of years since that occurred. It would be an astonishing coincidence if the optimal communities of interest/economies of scale persisted in every single state and country to the present day.

[minionofmidas]

Opposed. They can have associated free state status, though.

[Vosem]

I think the area on this map should be a state (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:New_York_Metropolitan_Area_Counties_Illustration.PNG). What's New York, what's New Jersey, and what's Connecticut should be obvious - Pike County is the only thing to be taken from Pennsylvania.

If we're on the topic of adjusting state boundaries, Maryland should probably annex D.C. Just for neatness, Missouri or Tennessee (doesn't really matter which) should probably have the Kentucky Bend. Can't think of much else - Superior is not a good idea.