How many votes did Palin cost McCain?

[Derek]

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STRONGLY DISAGREE!!!!!!!!!

Palin helped McCain and without her he would've lost about 54-45 and lost in a couple other conservative states. She helped to get out the GOP base who never liked McCain to begin with.  Bush is the one who cost McCain votes.

[Derek]

In an election with Obama's popularity involved there are alot of people who could've helped McCain. Other than Palin the only candidates I could see helping McCain more are Huckabee and Romney. The latter of which is overqualified anyways.

[Derek]

No you're wrong he served two two year terms as governor. Secondly, over qualification can also mean that they outshine the actual candidate and Romney would've outshined McCain just as much as Palin. And yes for breaking a tie in the senate as your full time job, I'm satisfied with 6 months governing a state. Now you're going to bring up the Palin factor. Let me tell you something! Sarah Palin had and still has more governing experience than McCain, Obama, and Biden put together. So there!

[Derek]

VP is not a top 25 issue. However, Palin had more governing experience than Biden, Obama, and McCain put together. Somebody disagree!

[Derek]

VP is not a top 25 issue. However, Palin had more governing experience than Biden, Obama, and McCain put together. Somebody disagree!

Joe Biden served on the City Council of New Castle County, Delaware, from 1971 to 1973, home to some 500,000 people.

Sarah Palin had served a year and a half as Governor of Alaska during her time in office.  She governed over just 100,000 more people than Biden did.

Not to mention that Biden served 36 years in the Senate (from 1973 to 2009), represeanting a state with nearly a million people near the end of his Senate term.

He did not govern!

[Derek]

And she helped the McCain ticket.

[Derek]

governing as part of the senate, ok that's not at all what I am referring to so we have apples and oranges here. Palin had been governor of a state and none of the other 3 had.

[Derek]

good for him he didn't govern a state though. it's funny how we agree on some forums and disagree on other forums but hey that's democracy at work.

[Derek]

If anyone hurt the McCain/Palin ticket it was Bush.

[Derek]

The housing market meltdown was staged for years to take place a few weeks before the 2008 presidential election. President Bush had his own bill in 2003 and the democrats fought it til the bill died in the senate. In 2005 McCain had his own bill that was voted against by both sides. The democrats had that up their sleeves for years. Not to mention Chris Dodd was the highest recipient of their loans with Obama coming in at number 2. They could've panicked 10 years earlier too. The collapse was bound to happen due to interest rates being too low and too many ppl being allowed to take out loans who had no intention on paying them back. The policies go back to Jimmy Carter.

[Derek]

Well yes that is a part of it. Chris Dodd and Barack Obama should thank him.

[Derek]

Well yes that is a part of it. Chris Dodd and Barack Obama should thank him.

Bush Jr. should also thank Greenspan for pumping up the economy enough for him tog et reelected.

The economy is run by the ppl. Not pumped up by the government. Unless you're talking about interest rates and loan qualifications. The economy turned around as a cycle in 2003-2004. If Greenspan was whipping something up then I would like to thank him!

[Derek]

Your saying the democrats plotted it? It was the democrats fault when Clinton deregulated the housing market, and entire suburbs turned into ghettos with in just a few shorts years. Had uncle that had a nice little house in a quaint suburb in 2000 that appraised for $130,000 in 2002 he sold it for 69,000. The Clinton administration is to blame for this debacle.

Yes Clinton put Carter's plan on steroids which allowed those of low incomes to qualify for loans that they had no intention on paying back. Republicans were spineless in their efforts to stop this. Bush called on congress to resolve this in 2003 and McCain had his own bill 2005. The democrats wanted to blame capitalism and greed because they know that the left in this country is too unsophisticated to know better. It was actually greed from ppl who were living above their means.

[Derek]

Yes just like the tax cut he wanted was reduced to 350 billion, he couldn't lower the amounts of frivolous law suits, couldn't get social security privitized, and couldn't open up ANWR. Say what you want about these issues. My point is that there weren't enough Republicans in congress for him at any point. They were probably receiving loans from Fannie/Freddie too and would have been deemed as making it harder for the poor to get loans.

[Derek]

You're not understanding what I'm saying. It was in their pocket for years and played at their right time. They could've played it before or later. They would look so horrible with Obama's messianic campaign ending in a crucifixion without resurrection that it had to be done. Fannie/Freddie cried for help along with the Layman brothers at just the right time.

[Derek]

Bush would not have been blamed for it in 2004 and in 2000 Clinton would have been blamed  and it would've cost Gore the election. It would've hurt Clinton before that. In 2004 the election was all about social issues and the War on Terror. Bush called on congress in 2003 to act on it and that would've come out in the 2004 election.

[Derek]

nice rebuttle, do you have a source?

[Derek]

Way to insult people ^^.

[Derek]

Yes that's true too. What's the point of losing Massachusetts by 20 or 25. There isn't a difference. When only considering democrat states, Palin cost McCain. However, she did more than plenty to help him in GOP states.

[Derek]

Palin was essentially a "Hail Mary" VP pick, which was what McCain needed at the time. He needed to attract the most amount of media attention possible, appease the conservative base, and to an extent it worked.

The problem is, Palin herself was poor on the stump and acted "on her own" at times, contradicting the top of her ticket. Palin energized conservatives, but cost McCain "experience" voters, and probably other independents.

Now, the question is, who would have been a good VP pick for McCain?

Sarah Palin suggested, for all her homey image, the sort of person who might have had a temper tantrum that could have led to a fatal stroke or heart attack for John McCain, after which we would be stuck with someone wholly unsuited to be President because of her . Sure, 2008 was a bad year for the GOP -- but as late as September 2008 the race seemed winnable for John McCain. Then the economy went sour.

1. Senator Richard Lugar (R-IN). Sure, that would have put two old men on the top of the ticket, but that would have been insurance. Lugar might have been a dull campaigner, but at the least he was well respected throughout the Midwest. He wouldn't have been as scary as Palin.

Lugar would have definitely have flipped Indiana, might have kept Virginia (which like Indiana hadn't voted for a Democratic nominee for President since 1964), Florida, and North Carolina from careening away as they did and might have made Michigan and Pennsylvania legitimate swing states late in the race. 

2. either Senator Susan Collins or Senator Olympia Snowe (R-ME). Anomalous Senators in Maine, they had to do something right. Sarah Palin did not lose to her gender.

3. Senator George Voinovich (R-OH). Another old guy, he had plenty of experience in elected politics as Mayor of Cleveland (a very Democratic city) and as Governor of Ohio.  Definitely flips Ohio and Indiana, puts Michigan and Pennsylvania in play, and likely.

4. Governor Jeb Bush (R-FL). Much better than his brother -- more competent and with little corruption. He could have made "Blame Bush" strategies backfire. 

I highly doubt Jeb Bush would've helped, but Richard Lugar is interesting for a pick. While I do think Palin helped amongst conservatives and ultimately helped him in the election, I think Mike Huckabee would've been good for the base as well. Voters would've seen another conservative governor to McCain's right.

[Derek]

Palin was essentially a "Hail Mary" VP pick, which was what McCain needed at the time. He needed to attract the most amount of media attention possible, appease the conservative base, and to an extent it worked.

The problem is, Palin herself was poor on the stump and acted "on her own" at times, contradicting the top of her ticket. Palin energized conservatives, but cost McCain "experience" voters, and probably other independents.

Now, the question is, who would have been a good VP pick for McCain?

Sarah Palin suggested, for all her homey image, the sort of person who might have had a temper tantrum that could have led to a fatal stroke or heart attack for John McCain, after which we would be stuck with someone wholly unsuited to be President because of her . Sure, 2008 was a bad year for the GOP -- but as late as September 2008 the race seemed winnable for John McCain. Then the economy went sour.

1. Senator Richard Lugar (R-IN). Sure, that would have put two old men on the top of the ticket, but that would have been insurance. Lugar might have been a dull campaigner, but at the least he was well respected throughout the Midwest. He wouldn't have been as scary as Palin.

Lugar would have definitely have flipped Indiana, might have kept Virginia (which like Indiana hadn't voted for a Democratic nominee for President since 1964), Florida, and North Carolina from careening away as they did and might have made Michigan and Pennsylvania legitimate swing states late in the race. 

2. either Senator Susan Collins or Senator Olympia Snowe (R-ME). Anomalous Senators in Maine, they had to do something right. Sarah Palin did not lose to her gender.

3. Senator George Voinovich (R-OH). Another old guy, he had plenty of experience in elected politics as Mayor of Cleveland (a very Democratic city) and as Governor of Ohio.  Definitely flips Ohio and Indiana, puts Michigan and Pennsylvania in play, and likely.

4. Governor Jeb Bush (R-FL). Much better than his brother -- more competent and with little corruption. He could have made "Blame Bush" strategies backfire. 

I highly doubt Jeb Bush would've helped, but Richard Lugar is interesting for a pick. While I do think Palin helped amongst conservatives and ultimately helped him in the election, I think Mike Huckabee would've been good for the base as well. Voters would've seen another conservative governor to McCain's right.

Palin may have energized the Republican base, but she also energized the Democratic base and offended too many moderates. Moderates ultimately decide the election. She may have gotten more people to vote for her in states that had no reasonable chance of going for Obama, but she lost swing states like Colorado, Florida, Indiana, Ohio, Virginia, and North Carolina by offending urban sophisticates. Her "Real America"  gaffe that pretended that rural America was real and urban America was not so real lost votes in urban and suburban America.

The Hail Mary pass is typically the difference between winning 20-18 and losing 25-13. The alternative to throwing the Hail Mary pass is losing 18-13, which late in the game means the same thing as lowing 18-13. It is a high-risk gamble at any other time than the end of the game or at the least the half. Sending out every eligible receiver to make the catch is to practically ensure an interception run-back for a touchdown. Had Senator McCain known of her deficiencies as a campaigner he would have gone with someone else.  Without her he might have lost 273-267 (Gore 2000 + NH + CO) instead of 365-173.

He may have won FL and that's it or Ohio is a possibility. After the financial meltdown, McCain wasn't lucky to become Walter Mondale or even Bob Dole. No Palin = Obama 55 McCain 45 plus Missouri and Montana fall to Obama. Palin energized the GOP and never underestimate what someone like that can do to help the party. Conservatives like myself may have stayed home on election night.

[Derek]

Palin helped McCain in every state that McCain won. The Obama states Palin hurt McCain. The country was very divided on her. I still think overall McCain could've lost by 10-12 points without her.

[Derek]

Palin helped McCain in every state that McCain won. The Obama states Palin hurt McCain. The country was very divided on her. I still think overall McCain could've lost by 10-12 points without her.

lol

You think he would've done better or worse?

[Derek]

Palin helped McCain in every state that McCain won. The Obama states Palin hurt McCain. The country was very divided on her. I still think overall McCain could've lost by 10-12 points without her.

lol

You think that he'd do better or worse without her?

[Derek]

give it up. Bush cost McCain votes, not Palin.