OLD: Comprehensive Social Security Reform Act (See new thread: Reference Only)

[Napoleon]

Nay

[Antonio the Sixth]

Aye, FWIW

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Aye, FWIW

you're voting to table this?

[Antonio the Sixth]

Aye, FWIW

you're voting to table this?

This is the final vote. The title hasn't been updated because Snowguy was PPT at the time.

[tmthforu94]

It's disappointing that this will probably end in defeat, considering all of the hard work several individuals have put into it. I hope you re-introduce it, Antonio.

[Napoleon]

It's disappointing that this will probably end in defeat, considering all of the hard work several individuals have put into it. I hope you re-introduce it, Antonio.

Hard work that wasn't finished when the PPT decided to open a vote.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

This is what I propose (relative to the benefits) :

Health insurance no change

Unemployment insurance Reduce the unemployment benefits to :
- 80% in the 1st year
- 60% in the 2nd year
- 40% in the 3rd year and after.

Lower the maximum benefit from $4000 to $3000.

Parenthood insurance Strike it outright

Elderly insurance set a maximum pension at $8000

Minor insurances no change

This is for the prestations. As for the funding, I'd wait for Barnes to give us his expertise onthe best ways of taxation. But first of all, I'd like to know if you Senators would get along with such a bill. If these changes don't satisfy you, then it's probably better to give up and table the bill. Otherwise, we can expect it to be passed by August.

I am assuming this didn't make it into the final bill?

[Antonio the Sixth]

No. Since nobody reacted I supposed it wasn't worth making all these edits.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

You asked about the day I posted I'd be gone for the rest of the week. I don't know why no one else responded, but it seemed like discussion was getting somewhere.  The president indicated he would provide details on what he thought would improve the bill and then didn't, but it least it renewed attention to it. So we just gave up on waiting to hear back from Barnes too and called for a vote? Is it just too big for the SoIA and GM to deal with? If that's the problem, I guess it's not practical.

[Ban my account ffs!]

I'll give it an Aye.

[bgwah]

aye

[Napoleon]

A large number of Atlasians will slip through the cracks if this is made law.

[CatoMinor]

Nay

[Fuzzybigfoot]

Aye

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

It's disappointing that this will probably end in defeat, considering all of the hard work several individuals have put into it. I hope you re-introduce it, Antonio.

Hard work that wasn't finished when the PPT decided to open a vote.

As Antonio can verify I have been more then patient with this bill. And for the record, I would never have opened the vote had the sponsor not asked for it:

This Senate fails forever. Since it is clear nobody gives a damn about this bill (and about the amount of work some people, me among others, have put in it), let's call a final vote and kill this finally. My fellow colleagues certainly have better things to do than doing their damn jobs, let's make their life easier.

So don't you dare blame this on me, Napoleon.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Fortunately, the means to rectify this situation are right below us in this post. It will be a little more messy then when BK does it (primarily because Antonio said it wasn't an amendment at the time) but I think it will still pass muster. So now I will ask the question directly to the sponsor, Antonio, does he want to keep debating this bill in this thread as we have been, or does he want to do what Polnut preposed?

This is what I propose (relative to the benefits) :

Health insurance no change

Unemployment insurance Reduce the unemployment benefits to :
- 80% in the 1st year
- 60% in the 2nd year
- 40% in the 3rd year and after.

Lower the maximum benefit from $4000 to $3000.

Parenthood insurance Strike it outright

Elderly insurance set a maximum pension at $8000

Minor insurances no change

This is for the prestations. As for the funding, I'd wait for Barnes to give us his expertise onthe best ways of taxation. But first of all, I'd like to know if you Senators would get along with such a bill. If these changes don't satisfy you, then it's probably better to give up and table the bill. Otherwise, we can expect it to be passed by August.

I am assuming this didn't make it into the final bill?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Perhaps whoever put in clause 8 was confused about 3, 4, and 5. I put in 7 simply because I thought all this time I had been illegally ending votes prematurely by not going through the cloture process which I figured was required, especially considering what 8 said. Or maybe I just didn't think to consider 3 and 8 in my mind at the same time.


I should have just rewrote the whole damn Section when I had the amendment on the floor, rather than put in two bandaids. Food for thought I guess.


Anyway, a final vote is now open on this bill, please vote Aye, Nay or Abstain.

It all has to do with the 24 hour debate clause.  If debate has ceased for 24+ hours, any senator can call for a vote.  Most of the time it'd be the PPT.

If debate has not ceased for 24 hours, but a senator wants to put it to a vote, he must call for a cloture motion which must pass with 2/3 majority.  Upon passing, the vote will open.

As PPT, I had to do cloture motions a few times on bills that were meant to be passed quickly.  The problem is, even in urgent bills, if someone chimes in to say "I think this is a good idea, I will vote yes"... that is considered debate.. so then you have to call for cloture (which is a giant pain in the ass).

Otherwise I don't think you've been breaking the rules.  If you have, it hasn't been noticed.  But now you know... so SHAPE UP OR SHIP OUT


Edit:  And your'e right... section 8 makes absolutely no sense at all.  If 14 days have passed, any motion to bring the bill to a vote must be approved by 2/3 majority only if 2 senators motioned for a vote prior to the 14 days?  What?  That should be completely stricken from the OSPR or reworded completely.

There will always be something for me worry about, especially when it deals with my own actions.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Nay

[Antonio the Sixth]

Fortunately, the means to rectify this situation are right below us in this post. It will be a little more messy then when BK does it (primarily because Antonio said it wasn't an amendment at the time) but I think it will still pass muster. So now I will ask the question directly to the sponsor, Antonio, does he want to keep debating this bill in this thread as we have been, or does he want to do what Polnut preposed?

This is what I propose (relative to the benefits) :

Health insurance no change

Unemployment insurance Reduce the unemployment benefits to :
- 80% in the 1st year
- 60% in the 2nd year
- 40% in the 3rd year and after.

Lower the maximum benefit from $4000 to $3000.

Parenthood insurance Strike it outright

Elderly insurance set a maximum pension at $8000

Minor insurances no change

This is for the prestations. As for the funding, I'd wait for Barnes to give us his expertise onthe best ways of taxation. But first of all, I'd like to know if you Senators would get along with such a bill. If these changes don't satisfy you, then it's probably better to give up and table the bill. Otherwise, we can expect it to be passed by August.

I am assuming this didn't make it into the final bill?

What I wanted is Senators stating their feelings about the bill and the proposed changes, so that to come with an amended version having the support of a majority of the Senate. I also wanted to have Barnes' report to work with. But it's clear it's too late to do all this. So, now, let's see if this passes or not.

If it passes, you guys will have all the time to work improving it. If it fails, some dedicated senator could resume it, reshape it, reintroduce it and have it passed. In any case, I want things to get done.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Why is it too late? In terms of what is it too late to proceed with the plan you laid out before the Tabling interruption?

[Napoleon]

The sponsor offered a deadline of Monday. You opened a vote on Sunday. Either way, I was still trying to clear things up with this bill and you deprived me of that opportunity.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

The sponsor offered a deadline of Monday. You opened a vote on Sunday. Either way, I was still trying to clear things up with this bill and you deprived me of that opportunity.

He changed the plan on Sunday, he called the shots, I merely responded:

This Senate fails forever. Since it is clear nobody gives a damn about this bill (and about the amount of work some people, me among others, have put in it), let's call a final vote and kill this finally. My fellow colleagues certainly have better things to do than doing their damn jobs, let's make their life easier.

Edit: You should be asking Antonio why he interrupted you. Or better yet why you interrupted him leading to him interrupting you. It was after the unsuccessful completion of your tabling effort and its lackluster turnout results that seem to have provoked Antonio to make that frustrated post about wanting a final vote. There was no reason to turn this into a confrontation. If Antonio didn't want a final vote, then it was a simple misunderstanding and we could have found a way to rectify the situation. However it doesn't appear that is the case.

[Napoleon]

The Senator also said we should kill it and then voted aye. No one cares about Grandmother, though.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

The Senator also said we should kill it and then voted aye. No one cares about Grandmother, though.

Sad, but probably true these days.

It's not like I can do anything about Antonio's seemingly inconsistent statements. Perhaps you should discuss that with him. My job is to make the best determination regarding procedural moves and you have to admit that does look a hell of a lot like a call for a final vote.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

nay