Zogby International joins calls for investigation into voter fraud (My title)
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  Zogby International joins calls for investigation into voter fraud (My title)
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Author Topic: Zogby International joins calls for investigation into voter fraud (My title)  (Read 2749 times)
Sam Spade
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« on: December 09, 2004, 05:37:50 AM »

Link here.

Zogby Polling Seeks Damage Control After Election Day Flub
By Marc Morano
CNSNews.com Senior Staff Writer
December 09, 2004

Capitol Hill (CNSNews.com) - Following an Election Day prediction that Democratic candidate John Kerry would win more than 300 electoral votes and the presidency, one of America's most well known polling firms continued the job Wednesday of explaining its flawed projection.

Shawnta Watson Walcott, communications director for Zogby International, joined a group of liberal Democrats at a faux congressional hearing focused on whether fraud influenced the Nov. 2 outcome.

"... it has become increasingly clear that this election has produced unprecedented levels of suspicion regarding its outcome, and we join this panel discussion in an attempt to find a resolution to these issues," said Walcott, who represented the firm's president and long time political pollster John Zogby at the forum sponsored by Democratic members of the House Judiciary Committee.

On Election Day, Zogby predicted that Kerry would win 311 electoral votes. For much of that afternoon, he also rated the state of Virginia as too close to call. Not only did President Bush end up winning Virginia by 9 percentage points over Kerry, he won 286 electoral votes, over 3.3 million popular vote more than Kerry and, of course, re-election.

But with a Rayburn House Office Building meeting room as the backdrop, Judiciary Committee Democrats, liberal special interest groups and individuals like Rainbow PUSH Coalition founder Jesse Jackson Wednesday alleged that the election had been marred by fraud and malfunctioning voting machines.

Walcott told the group assembled that Zogby International had questions of its own pertaining to the election.

"We have received thousands of letters and phone calls regarding irregularities - many of which center on early exit polling results that were uncharacteristically inaccurate in several battleground states; questionable practices at polling stations that may have resulted in votes not being counted accurately; and in Ohio, as with other swing states, the automated Diebolt machines were particularly disturbing because they offered no voting receipts" she said.

"It is with this intention that we recommend that a blue ribbon bipartisan panel be developed to investigate the allegations discussed here today ..." Walcott added.

Later, another noted political observer questioned the wisdom of Walcott attending the partisan event at the Rayburn Office Building.

Larry Sabato, director of the Center for Politics at the University of Virginia, said Zogby polling may have crossed a line in its call for an investigation of the election results.

"It's highly unusual for a pollster who claims not to be partisan to issue such a call [for an investigation]," Sabato told CNSNews.com .

When asked whether he thought Zogby might be trying to spread the idea of voter fraud to explain his mistaken pre-election prediction, Sabato responded, "I can't comment on [Zogby's] motives. I have no idea. But I can tell you this. This whole [election fraud] hullabaloo is malarky."

In explaining her presence at Wednesday's meeting, Walcott said she was offering "recommendations that may help restore the dignity and public confidence in the democratic process -- a process that is clearly worth protecting."

But Sabato said such criticism of the election process were without merit.

"There is absolutely no chance that the election was stolen, and there is absolutely no chance that the election results will be reversed in Ohio -- regardless of how many investigations are done," Sabato added.

Democrats have centered most of their allegations of election mismanagement or wrongdoing on Ohio, even though President Bush beat Kerry in the state by more than 135,000 votes.

Sabato also ridiculed the assertion by Zogby International that its exit polls were "uncharacteristically inaccurate" in 2004. "They have been characteristically inaccurate in 2000, 2002, 2004 -- wrong three times in a row and highly inaccurate," Sabato said.

"So talking about cynicism, the cynicism is being generated by these wild claims. Was it a perfect election? No. Has there ever been a perfect election in the history of the world? No," Sabato concluded.
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Gabu
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« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2004, 06:21:37 AM »

A classic example of cognitive dissonance.

"My prediction didn't agree with the election results.  That means that either my prediction was wrong or the election was stolen."

...

"Well, gosh, I can't see how my prediction was wrong, so I guess the election was stolen!"
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The Vorlon
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« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2004, 08:52:48 AM »
« Edited: December 09, 2004, 07:40:08 PM by The Vorlon »

It's more like...

The vast majority of other polls and the actual results had Bush ahead... my polls had Kerry winning => The election was stolen and virtually all the other pollsters are part of the conspiricy....


Zogby has just lost it.....

Related thread....
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StatesRights
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« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2004, 10:49:14 AM »

This organization should be shut down and Mr Zogby should face fines and/or jail time for sedition.
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MODU
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« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2004, 11:04:23 AM »


Zoggy sucks.  Smiley

Funny to see that they are taking such a stance on this.  After all, he said over the Summer that the election was Kerry's to lose.  Well . . . he lost . . . your initial projection was correct.  *dies laughin*
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they don't love you like i love you
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« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2004, 11:43:15 AM »

This organization should be shut down and Mr Zogby should face fines and/or jail time for sedition.

OK, it is a crappy organization and we shouldn't take it seriously, but shutting it down can't exactly be done legally unless he's broken laws which he hasn't, and then you claim he should be arrested for sedition? Name a law he's broken, or how's he advocated armed rebellion, the definition of sedition.
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handler
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« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2004, 11:50:45 AM »

Well, I was a great defender of Zogby before the election.

However, I'm off the Zogby bandwagon for three reasons:

1)  His predictions throughout the election cycle turned out to be wrong, wrong, wrong.  

2)  His waiting until 5:00 on election day to release his final state predictions (waiting for the exit poll results was highly suspicious and the fact that they just happened to coincide with the exit wrong exit numbers).

3)  I don't think a supposed non partisan polster should be calling an election in May and that is essentially what he did.

I wanted Zogby to be right.  He was not and I don't think I'll trust him ever again.  I'm  looking for accuracy, not partisanship even if it is news I want to here.  I'm inclined to think the man has indeed lost it.  Is he now saying the election was "stolen" in Ohio and Virginia (of all places)?
Total crap and he makes me feel like a fool for defending him all these months.
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The Vorlon
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« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2004, 07:39:27 PM »
« Edited: December 09, 2004, 07:41:53 PM by The Vorlon »

Well, I was a great defender of Zogby before the election.

However, I'm off the Zogby bandwagon for three reasons:

1)  His predictions throughout the election cycle turned out to be wrong, wrong, wrong.  

2)  His waiting until 5:00 on election day to release his final state predictions (waiting for the exit poll results was highly suspicious and the fact that they just happened to coincide with the exit wrong exit numbers).

3)  I don't think a supposed non partisan polster should be calling an election in May and that is essentially what he did.

I wanted Zogby to be right.  He was not and I don't think I'll trust him ever again.  I'm  looking for accuracy, not partisanship even if it is news I want to here.  I'm inclined to think the man has indeed lost it.  Is he now saying the election was "stolen" in Ohio and Virginia (of all places)?
Total crap and he makes me feel like a fool for defending him all these months.

Prior to 2004, 20 out of his last 44 polls were wrong by more than the margin of error.

In 2002 he had the highest average error of any major polling organization in the nation.

In 2002 his percentage of wrongly called races was higher than any other firm.

There was never a bandwagon to get on.

The man is a partisan hack who produces bad results...

When it comes to state polling, once you get past Mason-Dixon, who again had an amazing year, it gets pretty thin, although Survey USA had a good year, and "The Bot" also did very very well this time around.

I know how you feel though, Gallup, who normally I respect a great deal, had just a totally brutal year at the state level.

When a good pollster has a bad year, they do one of two things. - The deny everything and act like it never happened (Zogby) or they admit that things went wrong, and tell you how they plan to fix it.

Rasmussen blew up bad in 2000, he admitted it, and told us how he was going to correct it.

In 2004 Gallup blew up, they have admiutted it, and are reviewing their methods...

Zogby blew up in 1998
Zogby blew up in 2000
Zogby blew up in 2002
Zogby blew up in 2004...

He doesn't even admit there is a problem, so he can't fix it...

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ilikeverin
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« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2004, 07:43:56 PM »

roflolmao Cheesy
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agcatter
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« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2004, 08:55:27 PM »

Yes, the Rasmussen results look better and better at the national level - almost dead on.
Their state polls were also great.  Wonder how come Zogby's state polls sucked so bad when they were supposedly using the same weighting as Scott.  I'm beginning to think Zogby just makes his numbers up.  I really do.
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The Vorlon
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« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2004, 09:01:16 PM »
« Edited: December 09, 2004, 10:52:22 PM by The Vorlon »

Yes, the Rasmussen results look better and better at the national level - almost dead on.
Their state polls were also great.  Wonder how come Zogby's state polls sucked so bad when they were supposedly using the same weighting as Scott.  I'm beginning to think Zogby just makes his numbers up.  I really do.


Rasmussen and Zogby used the same party ID weight....

Zogby also has weights for race, geography, size of population center, position of the moon, number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin, number of Virgins sacraficed to the Fire God Rathmal, the psychic channelings of Miss Cleo.....
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agcatter
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« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2004, 09:41:30 PM »

LMAO

What's really funny is you're probably not far off.

Hack pretty well describes him.  Zogby's absolute refusal to admit blowing it (again) is truly something to behold.
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The Vorlon
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« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2004, 10:50:53 PM »
« Edited: December 09, 2004, 10:54:14 PM by The Vorlon »

LMAO

What's really funny is you're probably not far off.

Hack pretty well describes him.  Zogby's absolute refusal to admit blowing it (again) is truly something to behold.

What bugs me, is he thinks we are stupid..

Polls blow up - it's the way it is...

But don't tell me up is down, and black is white...

His web site is bragging how good his INTERNET polls were for example..

He missed MOE 9 out of 16 => Over half !

How stupid does he think we are?
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A18
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« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2004, 10:53:52 PM »

Nah, he just thinks that the average reader of his site is stupid.
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MODU
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« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2004, 02:57:50 PM »

Nah, he just thinks that the average reader of his site is stupid.

I, for one, became an EX-reader of his site once I came here (and Vorlon might remember my first post).  hehehe . . . I've SEEN the light . . . and the truth will set you free.  hahaha
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