Anti-Americanism on this board

[Frodo]

I have a question. Is stating that one of the reasons Iran is pursuing nuclear weapons is due to our actions in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and lack thereof in North Korea, Anti-American? Just trying to gauge what Anti-Americanism means to you.

No.

BTW, where is this thread where people are hoping Iran wins?

Not in this thread, but take a look at this other one.  

I was a little shocked by how many people would actually support Iran in a war with the United States and Israel.  

[Senator Clarence]

I want to thank Severe Frodo and Polnut among others who have talked about this civilly and politely... for those who have not I do no tappreciate it. Not only in this thread but in others...I walk on eggshells to avoid offending you folks- I prefaced the first post here by saying I know I invite an onslaught and I believe in general I have been polite and respectful even when many of your views have been offensive to me...

I am not ashamed to be an American and to believe that the USA is the greatest nation on the face of the Earth...these beliefs some how are treated as taboo or bigoted or ignorant on this board and it is difficult to bear... once again I find myself feeling physically ill due to comments I read on here and it is not due to the beliefs you have but the offensive manner you express it...

 I have avoided this thread since some one posted a video which I found deeply hurtful and offensive and I did so to think- and I will be continuing to think. I am sure that most of you won't give a damn but I am not sure if I can continue to be a member of this board... for as tolerant as many of you claim to be and are towards zealots in Iran and other countries you are largely intolerant of people with views like mine- pro-American, Christian, conservative

I find myself frustrated when I write a piece and find my words twisted or one minor part of my post criticized or find myself personally attacked...for a board with a purpose of discussing politics I would hope that you folks would be more accepting of those with different beliefs... I also want you to put into perspective how far outside of the mainstream many of you are- this doesn't make your views wrong but it should make you at least reconsider when you think of me and other conservatives as idiots for having views many more Americans hold then your views...

And to those of you who post from other nations- interacting with you has been a gift of this board and is the most amazing part of the web to me- but for the love of Christ show some respect to my country...I read again the thread about Iran vs. the USA and the comments make me sick. You are here discussing my country's politics- if I went on a board to discuss UK politics (just an example- I would not do this) and bashed hte UK and wished Argentina would take over the Falklands that would be impolite and offensive to those members...so please don't come on here and talk about how you would root against my country- root for the efforts of our military to fail which would obviously mean our troops end up dead.

In short- we can disagree without being disagreeable...many of you such as Severe Frodo and Nathan and Scott and Miles and Mikado many others have shown that princple. I have tried to post with that principle in mind. On the other hand many of you have called me and other conservatives racist, bigot, ignorant, Joe McCarthy, etc... not only will that type of crap screw you folks in the real world- it spreads no joy here on the web and does not make you seem any smarter... I hope being on a board with many smart and reasonable people can make thos eof you who have growing up to do more mature and respectful of others...

clarence

[opebo]

Folks have high expectations of the "Shining City on the Hill," and are disappointed when it falls short.

What rot, buddy.  I expect only the worst, and am not disappointed.  Lets face it, even compared to the less-hypocritical imperialists, America is remarkably blood-soaked (in fairness that is partly just a function of sheer size and being the main state-servant of global-capitalism).

[dead0man]

There is a lot you can say about opebo, but at least he takes his hatred of the US ...errrr "bad place" seriously enough to avoid it.

[Senator Sbane]

I have a question. Is stating that one of the reasons Iran is pursuing nuclear weapons is due to our actions in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and lack thereof in North Korea, Anti-American? Just trying to gauge what Anti-Americanism means to you.

No.

BTW, where is this thread where people are hoping Iran wins?

Not in this thread, but take a look at this other one. 

I was a little shocked by how many people would actually support Iran in a war with the United States and Israel. 

A war of Israel vs Iran I would at best be neutral, or be against the aggressor, which would be Israel. Hopefully that's not Anti-American, though the way some Republicans/Neocons act that would be more Anti-American than actually being Anti-American.

 The entire premise of that thread is wrong though. If there is a war between the US and Iran, it is much more likely that other Arab (sunni) nations will be our allies rather than Israel. I highly doubt it will be just Israel/US vs Iran.

[dead0man]

Why doesn't the plotting and (admittedly poorly) acting out 4 attacks against embassies in the last month alone* not make Iran an aggressor?  Yeah yeah, we suspect Israel or the US may have killed a few scientists.  MAY HAVE.  But even if it's true, it's not like Iran is passive in this game.  I don't know why this fact is ignored (or hand waved away) by some.



*and that's ignoring the years, nay, decades of Iran's proxies nearly constantly attacking Israel

[Sibboleth]

Folks have high expectations of the "Shining City on the Hill," and are disappointed when it falls short.

Something like that. I mean, there's a reason why Vietnam had such a catastrophic impact on the image of America over here.

[Senator Sbane]

Why doesn't the plotting and (admittedly poorly) acting out 4 attacks against embassies in the last month alone* not make Iran an aggressor?  Yeah yeah, we suspect Israel or the US may have killed a few scientists.  MAY HAVE.  But even if it's true, it's not like Iran is passive in this game.  I don't know why this fact is ignored (or hand waved away) by some.



*and that's ignoring the years, nay, decades of Iran's proxies nearly constantly attacking Israel

Iran itself hasn't bombed any embassies, has it? It just uses terrorists to do it's dirty work (rather facilitates the terrorists in doing their dirty work). Israel would be justified in going after those terrorists (though really it's just understandable blow back due to their own dickish actions). Terrorism against Israel won't ever stop, due to their own actions and the violent people they are being dickish to. You can take out Iran, but someone else will fund those terrorists. All it will lead to is even more valuable money being wasted on behalf of Israel (and the rest of the Arab world as well since they hate Iran as well). The US doesn't have interests there. We need to get the hell out of Iraq and Afghanistan and only protect oil interests when necessary (Kuwait 1990 would be an excellent example). These pre-emptive wars are idiotic, immoral and pretty much illegal.

[Hashemite]

Also, for full disclosure, if you consider me anti-American you'll be pleased to know I'm also "anti-Canadian" because I oppose the oil sands, oppose building pipelines, oppose internet fascism legislation, oppose Her Majesty's Government and I don't think Canada has any right to sovereignty over the Arctic based on its environmental policies.

[So the Heroes Fall]

Folks have high expectations of the "Shining City on the Hill," and are disappointed when it falls short.

Something like that. I mean, there's a reason why Vietnam had such a catastrophic impact on the image of America over here.

And on patriotism in general in the US, which is why there's such a sharp divide when topics of extreme nationalism and jingoism come up. Iraq hasn't helped in that regard either, especially when you consider many people now associate that type of stuff with the early Bush years and the time in between 9/11 and Iraq. That type of stuff just really bugs me and others. I mean for proof look at how many people just sort of laughed off the Jeremiah Wright stuff. It wasn't just the fringe and media personalities, it was a substantial chunk of the Democratic base.

For example we might all remember when Phil had what was essentially a "Complain about Occupy Wall Street posters" megathread and posted a pic of someone stepping over an American flag on the ground taken at one of the protests for proof of how scummy they were, and then I put it in my sig. Not as an anti-American statement but more as "See how much this bothers and offends me?" sort of thing.

[Proud Lieberal from Northeast]

Why would I support my government, when their actions are harmful?

[Grumps]

I hate everyone, equally.  That is all

[Old Europe]

It is my belief that if everyone in the world would have a more negative opinion on his or her own country we would make a great leap forward as a species.

I dream of a world where Israelis and Palestinians can meet at the UN and have the following exchange:

Palestinian: "We suck!"

Israelis: "No, we suck even more than you!"

Palestinians: "That's not true!"

[Hashemite]

Why would I support my government, when their actions are harmful?

RAH RAH RAH NATIONALISM.

[So the Heroes Fall]

I'd like to refer people to Antonio's signature. He clearly can make fun of the President of his country with no retaliation or being arrested. Now does this mean that conservatives don't ever use anti-French rhetoric? Or that criticism of say France's actions in its former colonies is "anti-French"?

[Hatman]

Oh come on folks. Clearly, the US is the only free country in the world and therefore it is the greatest country in the world. I mean, there's a reason they don't teach about any other countries in American history books!

Those who criticize the US government should feel lucky the don't have to live in... Canada where such opposition will get you jailed for years. Or Sweden, where they will hang you for your anti-Swedish beliefs.

The ignorance in this thread is outstanding, but what else can I expect from those who espouse blind American jingoism?

Of course, I shouldn't be too hard on my American friends. Many are products of a poor education system which reinforces this ignorance.

[Gustaf]

It's possible to be both too pro-American and too anti-American (duh) but at least people who are pro-American tend to be fundamentally on the right track. Anti-Americans never commanded much respect from me. They tend to be intellectually shallow in the extreme.

[Sibboleth]

I always love how some of the most anti-American people you can ever meet are often also the most 'American' (culturally) people about.

[Proud Lieberal from Northeast]

That's what would happen to any Pole criticizing the Prime Minister online!

Baroque frontier tradition lives on!

[Insula Dei]

I really dislike the sunni-shiite theory of international relations that has been popularized by some people on here. Yes, religious divides play a role in the positioning of actors in the Middle East. No, Saudi Arabia isn't aching to join Israel in a war against Iran.

[Proud Lieberal from Northeast]

I really dislike the sunni-shiite theory of international relations that has been popularized by some people on here. Yes, religious divides play a role in the positioning of actors in the Middle East. No, Saudi Arabia isn't aching to join Israel in a war against Iran.

The reason Israel was strongly asked to stay away from any participation in 1990/1991 war against Iraq was basically that most of the Arab countries, that were part of the coallition (both governments and population) would not stomach this.

Saudi leaders know very well how it would appear among their own people if they join foces with Israel against a fellow muslim country (shia or sunni, still).

[Vosem]

Yes, some people saying 'America is always bad' annoys me, particularly when they are clearly Americans, and even more particularly when (this is a common thread) they believe anyone who doesn't think so is a dumb redneck. I've gotten into a real-life fistfight over this. opebo (look, BRTD, I don't capitalize opebo at the beginning of a sentence!) is the exception; it's part of his persona, which is very entertaining.

[Senator Snowstalker]

Clarence is absolutely right. Every god damn last thing done by the CIA and the military is done for the benefit of America.

Or in the case of Guatemala, for the benefit of United Fruit Company.

[Vosem]

Clarence is absolutely right. Every god damn last thing done by the CIA and the military is done for the benefit of America.

Or in the case of Guatemala, for the benefit of United Fruit Company.

Making fruit cheaper in the United States. The interests of the USA and the UFC were one and the same.

[Senator Snowstalker]

Clarence is absolutely right. Every god damn last thing done by the CIA and the military is done for the benefit of America.

Or in the case of Guatemala, for the benefit of United Fruit Company.

Making fruit cheaper in the United States. The interests of the USA and the UFC were one and the same.

Which justify overthrowing a democratic government which gave voting rights to Indians and replacing them with a dictatorship which took that right away?