Atlas Morality Poll Results

[DC Al Fine]

Here are the results of the morality poll. Results are as of 86 votes. The difference compared to America at large is in brackets.

Birth Control: 90% (-)
Divorce: 81% (+12)
Pre-marital sex: 84% (+18)
Embryonic stem cell research: 77% (+12)
Gambling: 72% (+10)
Death Penalty: 41% (-20)
Wearing animal fur: 65% (+7)
Having a baby out of wedlock: 65% (+7)
Homosexual sex: 83% (+23)
Medical testing on animals: 63% (+6)
Doctor assisted suicide: 69% (+17)
Abortion: 65% (+23)
Cloning animals: 70% (+36)
Pornography: 74% (+41)
Suicide: 44% (+25)
Polygamy 41% (+27)
Cloning humans: 29% (+29)
Adultery: 21% (+14)

This confirms what everyone knew already. Atlas is much more socially liberal than the rest of America. We most diverged from the population at large on pornography, which is unsurprising given are relative youth and disproportionately male population.

Other than that, results were largely expected with the exception of birth control, which polled the exact same as the American populace.

[Beet]

America is definitely moving in the right direction on "moral" issues:

[Murica!]

Why is cloning humans considered so immoral? Can someone please explain?

[TNF]

Why is cloning humans considered so immoral? Can someone please explain?

Because of some hokey anti-science garbage from the religious right, I'd assume

[Murica!]

Why is cloning humans considered so immoral? Can someone please explain?

Because of some hokey anti-science garbage from the religious right, I'd assume

This is probably correct considering the last person I spoke to who opposed it literally said that clones wouldn't have souls.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Why is cloning humans considered so immoral? Can someone please explain?

My reasons for considering it immoral are that it concentrates too much power over the circumstances of the beginning of a person's life in the hands of other people, and that it's a means of assembling a person like a product rather than allowing a person to eventuate out of some sort of preexisting human relationship. I'm aware that these are unfashionable concerns to have. I don't consider it notably more immoral than other forms of gestational surrogacy. TNF would probably count this as hokey religious garbage and I won't deny that my religious convictions influence my viewpoint but I hope it escapes being considered anti-science or (inherently) right-wing.

This is probably correct considering the last person I spoke to who opposed it literally said that clones wouldn't have souls.

You talk to Orphan Black villains?

ETA: Of course, while we're on the subject of gestational surrogacy, there's an additional, entirely separate set of reasons why that as currently practiced is immoral, reasons which have a lot less to do with convictions about the stochastic and relational nature of human reproduction or whatever and a lot more to do with economic exploitation and coercion.

[CapoteMonster]

On Atlas, I'm a social conservative. Everywhere else I'm not .

[Türkisblau]

Atlas continues to be (mostly) insane.

[H. Ross Peron]

Atlas continues to be (mostly) insane.

I thought you were fairly liberal except on abortion?

Also interestingly Atlas Forum is slightly more anthropocentric than the American public at large as seen by their stances on animal testing and wearing furs.

[Türkisblau]

Atlas continues to be (mostly) insane.

I thought you were fairly liberal except on abortion?

Also interestingly Atlas Forum is slightly more anthropocentric than the American public at large as seen by their stances on animal testing and wearing furs.

I'll give some thoughts on it.

Birth Control: 90% (-) Moral
Divorce: 81% (+12) Conflicted
Pre-marital sex: 84% (+18) Conflicted
Embryonic stem cell research: 77% (+12) Moral
Gambling: 72% (+10) Conflicted, and WTF 72%!?
Death Penalty: 41% (-20) Immoral
Wearing animal fur: 65% (+7) Immoral
Having a baby out of wedlock: 65% (+7) Conflicted
Homosexual sex: 83% (+23) Moral
Medical testing on animals: 63% (+6) Immoral
Doctor assisted suicide: 69% (+17) Immoral
Abortion: 65% (+23) Immoral
Cloning animals: 70% (+36) Immoral
Pornography: 74% (+41) Conflicted
Suicide: 44% (+25) Immoral, and WTF 44%!?
Polygamy 41% (+27) Immoral, and WTF 41%!?
Cloning humans: 29% (+29) Immoral, and WTF 29%
Adultery: 21% (+14) Immoral... good to know 21% of Atlasians think it's moral to cheat on your loved ones. Ridiculous.

[Torie]

The definition of adultery does not require cheating. One can be adulterous even with consent of your spouse. That is why I don't consider it per se immoral.

[RFayette]

Atlas continues to be (mostly) insane.

I thought you were fairly liberal except on abortion?

Also interestingly Atlas Forum is slightly more anthropocentric than the American public at large as seen by their stances on animal testing and wearing furs.

I'll give some thoughts on it.

Birth Control: 90% (-) Moral
Divorce: 81% (+12) Conflicted
Pre-marital sex: 84% (+18) Conflicted
Embryonic stem cell research: 77% (+12) Moral
Gambling: 72% (+10) Conflicted, and WTF 72%!?
Death Penalty: 41% (-20) Immoral
Wearing animal fur: 65% (+7) Immoral
Having a baby out of wedlock: 65% (+7) Conflicted
Homosexual sex: 83% (+23) Moral
Medical testing on animals: 63% (+6) Immoral
Doctor assisted suicide: 69% (+17) Immoral
Abortion: 65% (+23) Immoral
Cloning animals: 70% (+36) Immoral
Pornography: 74% (+41) Conflicted
Suicide: 44% (+25) Immoral, and WTF 44%!?
Polygamy 41% (+27) Immoral, and WTF 41%!?
Cloning humans: 29% (+29) Immoral, and WTF 29%
Adultery: 21% (+14) Immoral... good to know 21% of Atlasians think it's moral to cheat on your loved ones. Ridiculous.

Yeah.  I posted mine on the other thread and mine are similarly quite socon relative to Atlas.  Mine are fairly similar, though with some differences.  Personally, I could never understand the pro-choice, anti-death penalty viewpoint......no need to justify it, I've heard the arguments many times, but for me, they just don't resonate. 

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Is opposing fur socially conservative all of a sudden?

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

Is opposing fur socially conservative all of a sudden?

Smh, CrabCake, don't you know Greens are to the right of leftist fox hunting Tories?

[afleitch]

My reasons for considering it immoral are that it concentrates too much power over the circumstances of the beginning of a person's life in the hands of other people, and that it's a means of assembling a person like a product rather than allowing a person to eventuate out of some sort of preexisting human relationship. I'm aware that these are unfashionable concerns to have. I don't consider it notably more immoral than other forms of gestational surrogacy. TNF would probably count this as hokey religious garbage and I won't deny that my religious convictions influence my viewpoint but I hope it escapes being considered anti-science or (inherently) right-wing.

I do wonder if you actually meant to make the comparison between cloning and ‘gestational surrogacy’ given what gestational surrogacy actually encompasses. I find it curious that a trans woman, a member of the LGBT community and a Christian (with a nod to the conception of Christ) would take issue with a woman carrying and delivering a baby for someone else. If a woman does not have a uterus, or has issues with carrying a child I really struggle to see how someone else carrying that child is ‘assembling a person like a product.’

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Is opposing fur socially conservative all of a sudden?

Smh, CrabCake, don't you know Greens are to the right of leftist fox hunting Tories?

this thread really needs to have the phrase 'SOCIALLY LIBERAL =/= SOCIALLY LIBERTARIAN' stamped all over it.

[Boston Bread]

I accidentally voted moral on suicide in the poll, so it should be 2% lower

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

I accidentally voted moral on suicide in the poll, so it should be 2% lower

I accidentally didn't so thank you for fixing that for me.

[Ebowed]

Is opposing fur socially conservative all of a sudden?

I doubt it.  Anybody who supports it by extension supports fur farms.  It is thoroughly a morally abhorrent product.

[ElectionsGuy]

Is opposing fur socially conservative all of a sudden?

No, if anything that would be a nature loving leftist thing. I think we're just more libertine.

[politicallefty]

Is opposing fur socially conservative all of a sudden?

I oppose killing animals solely for their fur. That is morally repugnant to me. However, I'm not entirely opposed to using fur for coats and whatnot. In that case, I sort of take the Native American stance in that we should all parts of the animal. If we're using all parts of the animal and fur is a secondary priority, I think the moral issues are lessened. (Actually, in any case, I think all parts of an animal should be used.)

[Ebowed]

Is opposing fur socially conservative all of a sudden?

I oppose killing animals solely for their fur. That is morally repugnant to me. However, I'm not entirely opposed to using fur for coats and whatnot. In that case, I sort of take the Native American stance in that we should all parts of the animal. If we're using all parts of the animal and fur is a secondary priority, I think the moral issues are lessened. (Actually, in any case, I think all parts of an animal should be used.)

Virtually all fur that is sold comes from animals killed solely for that purpose.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

I'm opposed to fur farms (normal) but as always with animal rights issues, literally everybody is horrendously hypocritical on the issue. The fur industry in the US, is notoriously horrendous (and worse in the PRC) but farms in other countries treat animals just as well as animals in dairy, meat and egg farms. (If much rather be a mink in a fur farm in Denmark than a hen in pretty much any egg laying operation)

People who oppose fur are also weirdly ok with leather, despite the fact that most leather is gained from India, where to circumvent cattle slaughter laws, cows are deliberately maimed, marched and ferried across the country.

And of course, literally nobody would be OK with treating a cat or dog the way pigs, sheep and cattle are routinely treated by the farming industry.

Vegetarians and vegans have their own sources of hypocrisy, which I won't go into here.

[Ebowed]

People who oppose fur are also weirdly ok with leather, despite the fact that most leather is gained from India, where to circumvent cattle slaughter laws, cows are deliberately maimed, marched and ferried across the country.

While it's true that a lot of leather comes from India cows, leather is also a by-product of the meat industry, and the hide sold from meat cows is used extensively in cheaper leather products.  The treatment of India cows is egregious but the way they are dragged along the country, tobacco leaves put in their eyes to keep them awake and moving, is a more visible parallel to the cows being transported across in trucks so dense that they are standing on top of others who have died in the moving process.  It's all cruel, whether it's for hamburgers or for leather.  I make no distinctions there.

Relating to fur, specifically, and criticising the more vocal attempts to curb its prevalence as a wasted effort in light of the way our meat, dairy and eggs are obtained, I find to be unhelpful.  Ultimately, the less we tolerate the exploitation of animals for their fur, the less we tolerate it in other areas as well.  Sometimes it's a tactical decision to wage the "easy battles" because it gets people thinking.  If someone says they're anti-fur and buy leather, maybe they will take the opportunity to re-examine their beliefs.  We'll never be able to convince everybody, but we can build a consensus.