Vermont’s Black Leaders: "We Were Invisible to Sanders"

[Marokai Backbeat]

But not one - including Hillary Clinton - actually put themselves out there or sacrificed anything to help end injustice against minorities.

Sincere question: What does this really mean? This is an easy thing to say, but in all of these conversations I don't understand what could possibly qualify for this. Beyond lending vocal support to these causes, being on the right side of these issues, and lending their images (as Hillary and Bernie have both done to varying degrees over their lives) what more could be done? What is the chasm in their records that shows they haven't done enough for minorities? What even is "enough"?

Very good question. Similar question: How exactly do you address the plight of African Americans WITHOUT discussing economics? There's criminal justice reform (on which Sanders is far more radical than Clinton) but beyond that, what else? How do you address that people are poor without talking about economics? Wring your hands about "White supremacy" and self flagellate over privilege? Those seem to be the only things people call for and they don't actually do anything. Certainly not compared to universal access to higher education and health care, which have very real concrete effects.

The irony is that for all the talk about "intersectionality" - this concept that issues of institutional racism and sexism are a result of a confluence of factors that are reinforcing - Hillary makes statements like "If we broke up the big banks tomorrow… would that end racism? Would that end sexism?" She preaches intersectionality and the idea that these issues are so much more complicated than one thing, but acts as if there's one magic pill herself, dismissing individual issues that would have a measurable effect on reducing racial and gender inequalities, because they wouldn't just solve it all at once. It makes no sense.

There was a point in one of the early Democratic debates where Hillary was asked point-blank if she would take a position on decriminalizing marijuana. She flatly said "No." When asked the same question, Bernie said he would support it. That alone would do more for reducing racial inequalities than any symbolic nonsense Hillary spews in her stump speeches, using words written by university graduates that she clearly doesn't even understand.

[Fuzzybigfoot]

So they found the 3 blacks in Vermont that don't like Bernie. Whatever. Even Hillary hack PPP had Bernie at 100% with blacks in Vermont.

That's because their sample was the other three African Americans in the state.  

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

A more accurate title: "a handful of Black people in Vermont dislike Bernie Sanders". Yes, these people are leaders of the Black community in Vermont but there doesn't seem to be much of a "community" there so much as there are Black families and individuals in Vermont. I could be mistaken about this but based on what I know about ultra-white places with tiny manufacturing bases, there's no reason to believe a community exists.

So, to be even more specific: "a few Black individuals, one of whom is a corporate lawyer and the other who is a professional activist, dislike Bernie Sanders." So what? What does this prove about anything?

I'm not particularly fond of Bernie Sanders' past/record on race relations but the idea that Hillary is better is inane. Both of them have been civil rights/racial justice advocates and both of them stopped prioritizing these issues as they became prominent. That said, only one of them voted for welfare reform and only one of them was a cheerleader for mass incarceration. Hillary now claims that she's always been a fighter for racial minorities but that isn't the case; anyone with access to google knows this. Remember this quote: "Sen. Obama's support among working, hard-working Americans, white Americans, is weakening again, and how whites in both states who had not completed college were supporting me." Remember when she used racial dogwhistling to attract a staunch core of support from white southrons? Remember when Bill Clinton compared Obama to Jesse Jackson? Ah yes, the Clintons, friends of the non-white American.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

88% of those on the Florida 2000 Scrub list were black. When there was testimony about it at the US Civil Rights Commission, Bernie was the only white member of Congress to show up. I have no idea why, since those 88% were clearly invisible to him.

[Landslide Lyndon]

The only reason anyone is trying to do this is because Clinton supporters are desperate to paint Bernie as a crazy old racist white guy that doesn't care about black people. No one is ever able to clearly explain how this is the case, mind you.

Nobody accused Sanders of being a racist, that's a straw man.
He is "accused" that he is unable or (more likely) unwilling to address maters about which minorities care.

[Famous Mortimer]

Which issues specifically?

[Landslide Lyndon]

Which issues specifically?

Immigration, mass incarceration, etc.
Heck, he was asked about racism at the last debate and he started talking about tax breaks for millionaires, again.

[ProgressiveCanadian]

Which issues specifically?

Immigration, mass incarceration, etc.
Heck, he was asked about racism at the last debate and he started talking about tax breaks for millionaires, again.

To get those policies through you have to deal with the corruption in politics first and work to get money out of politics and overturn citizens united. Until that happens literally nothing will get done in Washington.

[Famous Mortimer]

Chelsea Clinton literally just came out and said his plan to end mass incarceration was too radical.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Chelsea Clinton literally just came out and said his plan to end mass incarceration was too radical.

Yeah, there goes that argument. The family whose President had the largest increase in mass incarceration owns mass incarceration.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Chelsea Clinton literally just came out and said his plan to end mass incarceration was too radical.

And why are you surprised? Almost all of Sanders' major policy proposals have been criticized by liberal wonks as out of touch.

[Adam Griffin]

I think it's safe to say that a mod should just delete the entire third page of this thread.

First of all, Sanders is a class reductionist. This is blatantly obvious in how he roots everything in economics. Why is this article surprising or "gotcha" at all? I genuinely believe that Sanders believes that the only way these issues get solved is by addressing the economic issues as the catalyst; it's not that he doesn't care about the issues. The only reason he's caving now and talking about issues such as this from a social angle is the same reason that Clinton is: because the country is programmed to think in terms of identity politics first and foremost.

Secondly and in a physical/tangible sense, there are no such concepts as the "black community" or "black leaders" in Vermont. There are black people who live in Vermont. The state is barely 1% black. The blackest precinct you'll find in the state is 6% black. The vast majority have moved there because they possess the socioeconomic ability to do so, and are voluntarily distributed geographically throughout the state in proportions that more closely resemble the distribution of the rest of Vermonters than they do any area where the concept of "black communities" and "black leaders" actually have cohesion, culture and influence.

"Addressing the concerns of the black community" in Vermont would require that there be a community in the first place. This organization in particular is based in a town of 7,000 people that has a 2% black population, and in which a large chunk of the organization's volunteers are white. One or two guys getting together monthly with a dozen people calling themselves a community effort isn't a force through which social change is going to occur, nor is it a legitimate vessel that can lobby or represent effectively the concerns of a supposedly-existent community. These are more than likely the salty ramblings of a couple of people in an "organization" that are pissed that a U.S. Senator didn't take them seriously because they're not a serious organization.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Well, I can say this: it sure as hell isn't going to go away until the issue of economic inequality (and primarily, the effects of ignorance and poverty that it creates) is solved. Racism did not originate with blind hatred and disdain for one another along racial lines and it cannot be solved without acknowledging and correcting the class-based roots of it first (or at least concurrently). Social engineering that requires individuals to behave differently under the law without addressing the root causes of why they prefer to behave in a different way only encourages new and more subversive ways for institutionalized racism to fester and grow, and that only become more difficult to call out over time.

We love to triage the pus and scabs. The modern, mainstream approach to "solving" racism is akin to putting a bandage on a tumor.

[Antonio the Sixth]

At least he didn't actively work to make the conditions of the black community worse, like a certain President who enacted Welfare Reform and mandatory minimum sentences...

[Kingpoleon]

Are the "Leaders" all five black Vermontans?

[SWE]

Wait, there are black people in Vermont?

Yeah, his name was Marcus.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Chelsea Clinton literally just came out and said his plan to end mass incarceration was too radical.

And why are you surprised? Almost all of Sanders' major policy proposals have been criticized by liberal wonks as out of touch.

Chelsea Clinton is a liberal wonk now? You should really know when to stop digging.

Wait, there are black people in Vermont?

Yeah, his name was Marcus.

PPP managed to poll a few. 1% of 693 voters. All for Bernie.

[Lexii, harbinger of chaos and sexual anarchy]

Which issues specifically?

Immigration, mass incarceration, etc.
Heck, he was asked about racism at the last debate and he started talking about tax breaks for millionaires, again.

Say what?

[This account no longer in use.]

Which issues specifically?

Immigration, mass incarceration, etc.
Heck, he was asked about racism at the last debate and he started talking about tax breaks for millionaires, again.

Say what?

I don't know what Lyndon's going on about. Didn't he talk about mass incarceration in his opening statement last debate?

[Landslide Lyndon]

Which issues specifically?

Immigration, mass incarceration, etc.
Heck, he was asked about racism at the last debate and he started talking about tax breaks for millionaires, again.

Say what?

I don't know what Lyndon's going on about. Didn't he talk about mass incarceration in his opening statement last debate?

Oh, I guess that talking about an issue for 30 sec. makes everything OK.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Clearly if you don't like mass incarceration you should vote for a Clinton...