A very cool political ideology test

[The Duke]

so like Pat Buchanan?

I wonder what category opebo would be though, Gustaf described him best as Libertarian with fascist leanings.

Not exactly, Buchanan favors neither a strong central government nor a muscular foreign policy.  He is for states rights and isolationism.

[angus]

That's exactly right.  Buchanan is neither an imperialist or a foreign policy hawk.  He's a serious isolationist.  I like that about him.

[Platypus]

1. Social-Liberal
2. American "Liberal"
3. Liberal Socialist
4. Anarcho-Communist
5. Marxist
6. Social Democratic
7. Leftwing Neoliberal (Clinton)
8. Liberal
9. Rightwing Neoliberal (Thatcher)
10. Christian Democratic
11. American "Conservative"
12. Liberal nationalist
13. Fascist
14. National Socialist
15. Soviet "Communist"
16. Burkean (Liberal) Conservative
17. Christian Socialist
18. Revolutionary Conservative/Monarchist.

This test is sh**t. I'm not that left weing at all. plus I am a moderate supporter of the monarchy

[Michael Z]

Hmmm...

#1   American "Liberal"
#2   Liberal Socialist
#3   Anarcho-Communist
#4   Social Democratic
#5   Social-Liberal
#6   Marxist
#7   Left-wing Neoliberal (Clinton)
#8   Liberal
#9   Christian Democratic
#10   Soviet "Communist"
#11   Christian Socialist
#12   Burkean (liberal) Conservative
#13   Right-wing Neoliberal (Thatcher)
#14   American "Conservative"
#15   Fascist
#16   National Socialist
#17   Liberal Nationalist
#18   Revolutionary Conservative/Monarchist (far right)

[ilikeverin]

plus I am a moderate supporter of the monarchy

Constitutional monarchies are cool!  They have figureheads

[Gustaf]

so like Pat Buchanan?

I wonder what category opebo would be though, Gustaf described him best as Libertarian with fascist leanings.

Yes, libertarianism (classical Liberalism) at home, fascism (Realism) in foreign affairs.

But I thought you favoured a strong state on issues such as law and order?

[YoMartin]

I'm pleased with what I got... Christian Socialist first and Thatcher last!
---
Liberal Nationalist might refer to the old National Liberal party in Germany. And people like Klaus in Central Europe.

I still don´t know what "liberal nationalist" means. In Germany, since Hegel and Fichte, liberalism and nationalism have usually been at odds with each other. It´s true that a Liberal Nationalist party existed like a hundred years ago, but it eventually broke into two separated parties (DDP, DVP). Back then, it often happened, in places (like Germany or Italy) that didn´t form a united nation-state, that liberalism and nationalism appeared together against the common enemy (junkers, etc). But it wasn´t a real union between them, and it eventually had to breake. Personally I don´t think there is (nor it could be) a "liberal nationalist" ideology.

[opebo]

so like Pat Buchanan?

I wonder what category opebo would be though, Gustaf described him best as Libertarian with fascist leanings.

Yes, libertarianism (classical Liberalism) at home, fascism (Realism) in foreign affairs.

But I thought you favoured a strong state on issues such as law and order?

Well, sure but I'd prefer only the minimum laws.  

[Gustaf]

so like Pat Buchanan?

I wonder what category opebo would be though, Gustaf described him best as Libertarian with fascist leanings.

Yes, libertarianism (classical Liberalism) at home, fascism (Realism) in foreign affairs.

But I thought you favoured a strong state on issues such as law and order?

This is what I'm talking about:

Willingness to kill shows the 'courage of your convictions', in otherwords shows you mean what you say.  Domestically this means killing criminals - personally, I can think of worse fates than being executed.  Internationally, this means killing the enemy.  To preserve ones life, property, and security either at home or abroad requires a willingess to shed blood.  If you aren't capable of this, your enemies will rightly see you as weak and attack.  

None of the libertarians that I know would accept the state having the right to murder people.

[YoMartin]

I'm pleased with what I got... Christian Socialist first and Thatcher last!
---
Liberal Nationalist might refer to the old National Liberal party in Germany. And people like Klaus in Central Europe.

I still don´t know what "liberal nationalist" means. In Germany, since Hegel and Fichte, liberalism and nationalism have usually been at odds with each other. It´s true that a Liberal Nationalist party existed like a hundred years ago, but it eventually broke into two separated parties (DDP, DVP). Back then, it often happened, in places (like Germany or Italy) that didn´t form a united nation-state, that liberalism and nationalism appeared together against the common enemy (junkers, etc). But it wasn´t a real union between them, and it eventually had to breake. Personally I don´t think there is (nor it could be) a "liberal nationalist" ideology.

BTW, one of the "grandsons" of those liberal nationalists is Jörg Haider´s FPÖ (Liberal Party), but, of course, their liberalism is limited to the party´s name...

[opebo]

so like Pat Buchanan?

I wonder what category opebo would be though, Gustaf described him best as Libertarian with fascist leanings.

Yes, libertarianism (classical Liberalism) at home, fascism (Realism) in foreign affairs.

But I thought you favoured a strong state on issues such as law and order?

This is what I'm talking about:

Willingness to kill shows the 'courage of your convictions', in otherwords shows you mean what you say.  Domestically this means killing criminals - personally, I can think of worse fates than being executed.  Internationally, this means killing the enemy.  To preserve ones life, property, and security either at home or abroad requires a willingess to shed blood.  If you aren't capable of this, your enemies will rightly see you as weak and attack.  

None of the libertarians that I know would accept the state having the right to murder people.

Ah.  Well I disagree with that type of libertarian.  I think that people should be allowed individual freedom whenever possible, but when they kill someone, etc., it shows a certain proper conviction to execute them.

[Gustaf]

I'm pleased with what I got... Christian Socialist first and Thatcher last!
---
Liberal Nationalist might refer to the old National Liberal party in Germany. And people like Klaus in Central Europe.

I still don´t know what "liberal nationalist" means. In Germany, since Hegel and Fichte, liberalism and nationalism have usually been at odds with each other. It´s true that a Liberal Nationalist party existed like a hundred years ago, but it eventually broke into two separated parties (DDP, DVP). Back then, it often happened, in places (like Germany or Italy) that didn´t form a united nation-state, that liberalism and nationalism appeared together against the common enemy (junkers, etc). But it wasn´t a real union between them, and it eventually had to breake. Personally I don´t think there is (nor it could be) a "liberal nationalist" ideology.

BTW, one of the "grandsons" of those liberal nationalists is Jörg Haider´s FPÖ (Liberal Party), but, of course, their liberalism is limited to the party´s name...

I'm a liberal nationalist.

[angus]

I would have called myself a liberal nationalist too

except that I'm apparently a Left-wing Neoliberal Clintonista.

ah, well, "a rose by another name smells just as sweet."

and a turd by any other name smells just as foul.

[KEmperor]

It looks like a lot of the repubicans are being labelled "Clinton" liberals.  Obviously this test is flawed.

[angus]

yeah, they all are.  but at least this one adds to our already bizarre and madening cornucopia of labels.  So I like it for its power to further confuse a confused electorate.

[The Duke]

I don't know what all the confusion about Liberal Nationalism is, just look at my post earlier, guys.  Think Scoop Jackson or Harry Truman on the American side, Tony Blair in Europe.  They are traditional New Deal liberals.

Social policy- They are moderates, typicaly favoring legalized abortion in the first trimester, rejecting the more aggrssive notions of the civil rights era like Aff. Action, and favoring basic civil rights for all citizens.

Economic policy-They favor nationalist economic policies like tariffs and government investment in infrastructure, as well as moderate income redistribution like in the American model.

Foreign policy-Favored containment against USSR, aggressive stand on confronting terrorism today.

[Siege40]

#1 Liberal Socialist
#2 American "Liberal"
#3 Marxist
#4 Social Democratic
#5 Anarcho-Communist
#6 National Socialist
#7 Social-Liberal
#8 Fascist
#9 Christian Socialist
#10 Left-wing Neoliberal (Clinton)
#11 Soviet "Communist"
#12 Christian Democratic
#13 Liberal Nationalist
#14 Liberal
#15 Burkean (liberal) Conservative
#16 Revolutionary Conservative/Monarchist (far right)
#17 Right-wing Neoliberal (Thatcher)
#18 American "Conservative"

Those spikes in right-wing makes me nervous (#8 Fascist) however Communist and Marxist are high up so yay.

Siege

[Beet]

#1 Social-Liberal
#2 Left-wing Neoliberal (Clinton)
#3 Social Democratic

 

[angus]

I don't know what all the confusion about Liberal Nationalism is, just look at my post earlier, guys.  Think Scoop Jackson or Harry Truman on the American side, Tony Blair in Europe.  They are traditional New Deal liberals.

Social policy- They are moderates, typicaly favoring legalized abortion in the first trimester, rejecting the more aggrssive notions of the civil rights era like Aff. Action, and favoring basic civil rights for all citizens.

Economic policy-They favor nationalist economic policies like tariffs and government investment in infrastructure, as well as moderate income redistribution like in the American model.

Foreign policy-Favored containment against USSR, aggressive stand on confronting terrorism today.

fyi, my confusion isn't over that term.  I understand the term well, and I think the term fairly well suits me, for example.  I was simply expressing consternation over the perceived need for labelling, and the misunderstandings that such labels cause.

[The Duke]

angus,

I wasn't talking about you.  I was talking about the people who think Liberal Nationalist refers to some obscure German idology.  I know you understood what I was saying.

[YoMartin]

I don't know what all the confusion about Liberal Nationalism is, just look at my post earlier, guys.  Think Scoop Jackson or Harry Truman on the American side, Tony Blair in Europe.  They are traditional New Deal liberals.

Social policy- They are moderates, typicaly favoring legalized abortion in the first trimester, rejecting the more aggrssive notions of the civil rights era like Aff. Action, and favoring basic civil rights for all citizens.

Economic policy-They favor nationalist economic policies like tariffs and government investment in infrastructure, as well as moderate income redistribution like in the American model.

Foreign policy-Favored containment against USSR, aggressive stand on confronting terrorism today.

I don´t see Tony Blair as a liberal at all. Much of the emphasis of the "Third Way" is put on the community rather than in the individual. In fact, I would say he abandoned the liberal positions in social matters that Old Labour had traditionally valued. The role of family and local communities, the explanations of criminal behaviour, the teaching methods, etc, proposed in the Third Way are way more conservative than liberal. Old Labour, like classical liberalism, was not very interested in how people lived their lives; quite the contrary is the case of communitarian Blair.

Regarding the possibility of "nationalist liberalism", I think: for a liberal, nations are abstract words that don´t mean much. Liberalism has traditionally been an internationalist ideology, seeing nationalism as an absurd way of dividing people. Nationalism implies a preference for a certain group of people ( those who by chance happened to have been borned in the same territory as you) when liberalism has always said that a) all men are equal or (in a more "romantic" liberalism) b) that different cultures have equal status. So I just don´t see how you can combine both principles at the same time.

Maybe we should email the guy who made the test and ask him what "liberal nationalist" means...

[angus]

These are good points.  You'll note that, except in cases of specific reference, I and Rightwingnut and a few others use the terms 'liberal' and 'conservative' to refer to economic considerations.  I feel we could avoid some confusion if we continued to avoid those terms in connection with 'wedge' issue conversations.  Unfortunately, the talking heads have so ingrained within the national psyche the reflex to label anything with which Ronald Reagan agrees as 'conservative' and anything with which his detractors agree as 'liberal' that those terms have lost all significant meaning.  so we end up with a situation wherein if you support more government interference in your life you're as likely to be called a 'liberal' as a 'conservative' depending on what ther particular issue is.  

Compounding this issue further are the uses of socialist, libertarian, liberal, conservative, etc. in the party names of US and foreign political parties.  The Nazionalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiters Partei, or NSDAP, or Nazi Party is a great example.  Neither socialist or particularly friendly to 'workers.'   Yet both words, Sozialistische and Arbeiter, are used in the party label.

We do the same confusing BS in our own country.  If you avoid all confusion and go back to Merriam Websters (or even a Spanish) dictionary, you'll find that 'liberal' has to do with favoring change, whereas 'conservative' has to do with saving stuff.  So, yes, exactly speaking, a liberal would (Perhaps!) favor 'one-world' over the classic nation-state.

Having said that, there's no need to email the guy because I've read the main talking points on the URL given above (you can too!) and JohnDFord succinctly provides a definition which is in pretty close agreement with the aforementioned URL.

[angus]

For example, we just took a bunch of bottles and plastic and metal to the recyclers.  I'd consider that a conservative action.  Any of you want to argue over that?

[KEmperor]

For example, we just took a bunch of bottles and plastic and metal to the recyclers.  I'd consider that a conservative action.  Any of you want to argue over that?

You didn't conserve gas by doing that.  

[Gustaf]

angus,

I wasn't talking about you.  I was talking about the people who think Liberal Nationalist refers to some obscure German idology.  I know you understood what I was saying.

Well..it does, though probably not on that test.