SENATE BILL: End to Imperialism Act (Law'd)

[Ban my account ffs!]

I think we should call this to a vote ASAP... there is no reason to amend it into something that is nothing like the original bill.

With the 90 day time frame, I will support it.  Let's have our combat troops home to take their kids trick-or-treating.

[Napoleon]

I will make these minor tweaks then. I want to see a final vote to determine where the Senate stands.

Amendment

Funding for combat troops in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Libya shall no longer be authorized by this Senate effective 90 days following passage.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

If this Bill passes as is proposed - it will not receive White House support.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

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Senators have 24 hours to object to the sponsor originated Amendment

[Fuzzybigfoot]

I think we should call this to a vote ASAP... there is no reason to amend it into something that is nothing like the original bill.

With the 90 day time frame, I will support it.  Let's have our combat troops home to take their kids trick-or-treating.

^^^^

[Napoleon]

Final vote time I guess.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Final votes are out of order when an amendment is under consideration.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

I object on the grounds that combat troops in Libya were never authorized by the Senate in the first place, so "no longer authorized" is inaccurate.

[Napoleon]

I object on the grounds that combat troops in Libya were never authorized by the Senate in the first place, so "no longer authorized" is inaccurate.

I tried searching on the wiki and could not find it. Last night I asked the Presidential about this but he hasn't yet responses.

[bgwah]

You may be thinking of Senator Rowan's "Protect Libya Citizens Act," which was tabled. So I think Shua is correct when he says the Senate never authorized action in Libya. You may be thinking of the SoEA's actions? (link: https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=133144.msg2862561#msg2862561)

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

I object on the grounds that combat troops in Libya were never authorized by the Senate in the first place, so "no longer authorized" is inaccurate.

I tried searching on the wiki and could not find it. Last night I asked the Presidential about this but he hasn't yet responses.

I did say that I was unavailable over the weekend... I would like some advice on this matter.

[Napoleon]

I object on the grounds that combat troops in Libya were never authorized by the Senate in the first place, so "no longer authorized" is inaccurate.

I tried searching on the wiki and could not find it. Last night I asked the Presidential about this but he hasn't yet responses.

I did say that I was unavailable over the weekend... I would like some advice on this matter.

True enough we can resume when you return.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Wait, what is it that's the contention about what I said? It's clear the Senate never authorized any action in Libya. The previous and current administration have been acting without any Senate authorization or consultation. There's never been any question that's what they've been doing.

[Napoleon]

How is it legal if that is true?

[Ban my account ffs!]

How is it legal if that is true?

It's not.  Perhaps we should drag the SoEA in here to explain.  If he is engaging in unauthorized activities, he should stop immediately.  If the president acts to try and authorize such activity, I'd recommend we defund any such activities ASAP.  If he wants to pay for it with milk and honey and unicorn jizz, he can go ahead and try.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

The President, in his role as Commander-in-Chief, authorized Atlasian troops to be part of NATO operations in Libya several months ago.  The Atlasian troops in Libya now are NATO soldiers; this is not an Atlasian military expedition.  The Senate, by keeping Atlasia in NATO, has acquiesced to Atlasian troops being used in NATO military ventures.

[Napoleon]

I was told these aren't troops but civilians.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

You misread what I said - I said that I changed the mission from a military combat one to one of civilian protection and military intelligence and logistical support.

[Ban my account ffs!]

You misread what I said - I said that I changed the mission from a military combat one to one of civilian protection and military intelligence and logistical support.

What's to stop the senate from reducing any funds given to NATO in order to make it impossible to keep sending Atlasian troops to Libya under the guise of international cooperation?

This bill has gone nowhere in days.  I'm tempted to call it to a vote, but I think I'll let Napoleon do that.

Keep in mind that if the bill passes as written and your veto is overridden, all troops from Libya will have to be withdrawn because no funding will be in place for them... even if it is first appropriated to NATO.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

I have offered Napoleon what I think is a fair compromise - but he has not made those details public yet.

[Ban my account ffs!]

I have offered Napoleon what I think is a fair compromise - but he has not made those details public yet.

Well, I'd hope he makes them public ASAP.  As I already said, I won't support something that is too watered down and promotes further warmongering.

The bill as it stands now would pass the senate.  With minor changes, we would override your veto.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

As I said - I respect the right of the Senate to make these determinations - but I believe anything too precipitous would be a mistake.

[Napoleon]

I have not decided how to proceed as of now. I am weighing a few options

[Ban my account ffs!]

As I said - I respect the right of the Senate to make these determinations - but I believe anything too precipitous would be a mistake.

A mistake?  Afghanistan will be an endless moneypit for eternity due almost completely to geography.  We will never "win" there by employing force.  Afghanistan should really be split into several small semi-autonomous regions that are self governing.  But that won't be accomplished with Atlasian money or Atlasian troops.

We are more than ready to withdraw from Iraq.  I believe they can sustain democracy.. though they, too, should probably be divided into 3 semi-autonomous regions with self government.  The religious and cultural divides among the people there are too rigid to force them together under a weak democratic government.  By leaving the bulk of the decisions to regional governments elected by like minded people, things will run much more smoothly.

As far as Libya goes... just because the international community agrees to bombing the hell out of people, doesn't make it right.  I support the rebels in removing the tyrannical government from power... but that's all I believe I can and should do.. is give them moral support.  Targeted trade/economic sanctions and diplomacy should be the viable alternative.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

My new proposal is to have more than 50% of all combat troops home by April

60% home from Iraq by 31 December - all troops (including support troops) out by June
40% back from Afghanistan by 31 December - up to 65% by April

As for Libya - people really have missed that I ordered that Atlasian forces were to act ONLY to protect civilians and civilian infrastructure in rebel-held areas. So troop numbers have dropped already - 60% will be home by 1 November - my expectation is that our forces for civilian defense as well as intelligence and logistical support would be roughly 25% of our original deployment and we can get that done by 1 November also.

In spite of my personal feelings on these conflicts, I think this is a reasonable compromise.