Motion to Expel Senators Dwtl and PiT

[minionofmidas]

The Constitution, Article I, Section 3, Clause 1 states: "The Senate may establish rules for its own proceedings, and with the concurrence of two-thirds of its number, expel a Senator." The rules the senate has established for its own proceedings make no further note of the procedure to be used.
I will try to dig up old precedent cases on the correct proceeding now. Until that time, the vote is not open.

[minionofmidas]

The established precedent seems to be for the thread to set around for a couple of days for people to debate in and the vote then be started or not.

So this is what we'll be doing.
Once I start the vote I will keep it open for up to seven days or until a two-thirds majority has either been achieved or become impossible.

[Хahar 🤔]

Isn't there also a motion to expel PiT?

[afleitch]

At the moment I feel the Senate should vote to expel everyone in it! Glass houses and all that.

[Torie]

Is this over the spoiling of their ballots? 

[Хahar 🤔]

Is this over the spoiling of their ballots? 

Yes, and collusion to steal an election.

[Torie]

I don't think deliberately spoiling a ballot is a crime, or even unethical. The guys found a loophole and went with it.

[afleitch]

I don't think deliberately spoiling a ballot is a crime, or even unethical. The guys found a loophole and went with it.

My point exactly - everyone finds loopholes in Atlasian elections.

[Хahar 🤔]

I don't think deliberately spoiling a ballot is a crime, or even unethical. The guys found a loophole and went with it.

But was the exploitation of said loophole ethical?

[afleitch]

I don't think deliberately spoiling a ballot is a crime, or even unethical. The guys found a loophole and went with it.

But was the exploitation of said loophole ethical?

It is not the Senates business to proclaim the vote of a Senator acting in his capacity as a private citizen, ethical or unethical

[Јas]

Whether Senators DWTL and PiT committed a crime is a matter for the courts. I bring this motion because they tried to undermine the democratic process in a manner which is not, and should not, be consistent with their standing as Senators of Atlasia.

Whether or not it was a violation of the letter of the law, is certainly a violation of the spirit of it. Senators DWTL and PiT, like the rest of us, took an oath to preserve, protect and defend as best they can the Constitution of Atlasia - a Constitution which enshrines democracy, which seeks to promote justice and ensure domestic tranquility.

I believe they have been found wanting, indeed, quite severely so. For that reason, I ask my fellow Senators to make clear that their behaviour and actions are unacceptable and unbecoming, by approving their expulsion from this chamber.

[afleitch]

Whether Senators DWTL and PiT committed a crime is a matter for the courts. I bring this motion because they tried to undermine the democratic process in a manner which is not, and should not, be consistent with their standing as Senators of Atlasia.

Whether or not it was a violation of the letter of the law, is certainly a violation of the spirit of it. Senators DWTL and PiT, like the rest of us, took an oath to preserve, protect and defend as best they can the Constitution of Atlasia - a Constitution which enshrines democracy, which seeks to promote justice and ensure domestic tranquility.

I believe they have been found wanting, indeed, quite severely so. For that reason, I ask my fellow Senators to make clear that their behaviour and actions are unacceptable and unbecoming, by approving their expulsion from this chamber.

They took an oath to the Consitution in their capacity as a Senator, not as a private citizen. Nor is there any indication that they have violated any part of the Constitution or indeed it's spirit. Nor have they flouted, to our knowledge at this stage before any legal response, any electoral law through purposeful spoiling of the ballot to affect the outcome of the race, nor were supporters of an opposing candidate breaking any law or practice by effectively 'ballot stuffing' the polls before they closed. All that was exploited was a loophole.

The Senate, of all bodies should be most familiar with that practice

[Јas]

Whether Senators DWTL and PiT committed a crime is a matter for the courts. I bring this motion because they tried to undermine the democratic process in a manner which is not, and should not, be consistent with their standing as Senators of Atlasia.

Whether or not it was a violation of the letter of the law, is certainly a violation of the spirit of it. Senators DWTL and PiT, like the rest of us, took an oath to preserve, protect and defend as best they can the Constitution of Atlasia - a Constitution which enshrines democracy, which seeks to promote justice and ensure domestic tranquility.

I believe they have been found wanting, indeed, quite severely so. For that reason, I ask my fellow Senators to make clear that their behaviour and actions are unacceptable and unbecoming, by approving their expulsion from this chamber.

They took an oath to the Consitution in their capacity as a Senator, not as a private citizen. Nor is there any indication that they have violated any part of the Constitution or indeed it's spirit. Nor have they flouted, to our knowledge at this stage before any legal response, any electoral law through purposeful spoiling of the ballot to affect the outcome of the race, nor were supporters of an opposing candidate breaking any law or practice by effectively 'ballot stuffing' the polls before they closed. All that was exploited was a loophole.

The Senate, of all bodies should be most familiar with that practice

I'll put you down as an 'undecided' then.

[Torie]

I don't think deliberately spoiling a ballot is a crime, or even unethical. The guys found a loophole and went with it.

But was the exploitation of said loophole ethical?

I think so. Heck, waiting to vote until the last moment is kind of gaming the system too.

[Хahar 🤔]

I don't think deliberately spoiling a ballot is a crime, or even unethical. The guys found a loophole and went with it.

But was the exploitation of said loophole ethical?

I think so. Heck, waiting to vote until the last moment is kind of gaming the system too.

But it's also Atlasian tradition, and is fully within the spirit of the law. Intentional ballot-spoling as a means of exploiting the non-monotonocity of the system is not.

Or that's the way I see it, at least.

[DownWithTheLeft]

Hey I've dealt with these things before, people get a little power crazy sometimes

Anyway, I'll say this in my defense.  What I did was no different than waiting until the end to vote, what I did was legal and in fact something I had done before with good graces of President Moderate.  To expel me from this institution when the voters clearly voted to put me here is undemocratic as it deprives the voters of the representive they elected.

[SPC]

Not the first time the Senate has attempted to expel DWTL for a non-crime, and I expect the same result, too. Of course, this exposes the hypocrisy of Jas and Trondheim.

[Sensei]

I will be voting to expel DWTL

[SPC]

So, we have three people who will vote for it, and three people who will vote against it. For this to pass, Andrew, Al, HappyWarrior, and BaconKing would all have to vote to expel him. Of course, I doubt BaconKing would vote to expel DWTL, since he wold not be in the Senate if it weren't for the matter Jas wishes to expel him for. I rate it as a 2.3% chance that DWTL actually gets expelled.

[AndrewTX]

Dont start tempting me now. At this point, I'm really not sure where I am leaning. As I stated previously, I am disapointed with the actions taken by a few people here. I almost believe that the best way to go about this is just let the people decide in the next election if DWTL will continue to serve or not.

 So once again I'm not sure where I'm leaning with this.. I guess I'll have to ponder not what is whats best for me, but what is best for this Senate and Atlasia.

[DownWithTheLeft]

Dont start tempting me now. At this point, I'm really not sure where I am leaning. As I stated previously, I am disapointed with the actions taken by a few people here. I almost believe that the best way to go about this is just let the people decide in the next election if DWTL will continue to serve or not.

 So once again I'm not sure where I'm leaning with this.. I guess I'll have to ponder not what is whats best for me, but what is best for this Senate and Atlasia.

Well to answer you second question the Atlasian people wanted me in the senate

[DownWithTheLeft]

So, we have three people who will vote for it, and three people who will vote against it. For this to pass, Andrew, Al, afleitch, and BaconKing would all have to vote to expel him. Of course, I doubt BaconKing would vote to expel DWTL, since he wold not be in the Senate if it weren't for the matter Jas wishes to expel him for. I rate it as a 3% chance that DWTL actually gets expelled.

Afletich isn't a senator, I suppose you mean Trondheim.  And we only have 2 confirmed votes in favor, I think Al is better than expulsion motions

[Хahar 🤔]

For: Jas, Sensei
Against: DWDL, PiT
Undecided: Andrew, HW
Unknown: The rest

[Associate Justice PiT]

     As I said, I exposed this flaw because I didn't believe people would take it seriously otherwise. If you want to expel me from the Senate for that, there isn't much I can do about it, though I can't blame anyone for their skepticism on the issue.

     As for DWTL, while I cannot say that he is totally blameless by any stretch of the imagination, he pursued much the same goal, & had fun doing it. Isn't the point of Atlasia to have fun? If someone can point out an area where reform is needed & have fun doing it, should they be expelled from the Senate?

[AndrewTX]

For: Jas, Sensei
Against: DWDL, PiT
Undecided: Andrew, Sensei
Unknown: The rest

You doubled Sensei. I believe you meant to put Happy as undecided. 

If there was no discussion, and these votes were just spoiled I think I'd be leaning more against explusion. My problem is that it was suggested in public on how to change this election. I'm positive that my friend Lief, and SPC would make excellent Senators. I just hate seeing the results change around over something like this.