SENATE BILL: End to Imperialism Act (Law'd)

[Ban my account ffs!]

Nay.

I know.. shoot me later.  Since I made the motion, I've decided we need more time to debate this.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

Nay.

I know.. shoot me later.  Since I made the motion, I've decided we need more time to debate this.

You really are a tease, lol

[Napoleon]

Nay! I expect that this bill needs some more debate.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

"We're going up, We're going down.
We're going up, down, down, up
anyway you want me to go.
Yea, yea yea.
You got me doing what you want me,
oh baby what do you want me to do?
You got me doing what you want me,
oh baby what do you want me to do?"

Not as good as Elvis, but it will do.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Nay

[bgwah]

naye

[Fuzzybigfoot]

nay

[Antonio the Sixth]

Aye

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Nay

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Nay.


I am not sure if I can do this, this soon, but this has failed.

[Ban my account ffs!]

I think debate should continue and everyone should cool their heels a bit before we move forward.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

We debate hasn't continued here.

One more day, and I shalln't answer for the consequences for this bill.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

I think it's reasonable to wait until after the election and the weekend is over and see then if any progress has been made or can be made at reaching an agreement.
I appreciate the President's response to the issues I posed. What I am still wondering is what we would do differently in the next few months in Afghanistan from what we have done so far - as whatever we are doing right now doesn't seem to be working.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I prefer activity brinksmanship, but I think I'll compromise here.


Two more days or.....

[Napoleon]

There is no need to rush.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

The other thing I am considering is that, I believe, we really ought to leave before the end of the training/recruitment season. We need to be handing those duties off to the Afghani forces too before we leave, and once the more active combat season begins again the Afghani forces will already be responsible for all security. If we are still operating there in the Spring the security vacuum when we leave could actually be more severe than if we leave earlier.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

There is no need to rush.

I know, it's completely strategic for the purpose of encouraging discussion and debate to occur more actively. Don't tell anyone, it's a secret.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

The other thing I am considering is that, I believe, we really ought to leave before the end of the training/recruitment season. We need to be handing those duties off to the Afghani forces too before we leave, and once the more active combat season begins again the Afghani forces will already be responsible for all security. If we are still operating there in the Spring the security vacuum when we leave could actually be more severe than if we leave earlier.

Interesting point. Do we know what the conditions and capabilities are regarding the Afghan forces? I'd assume it's the same as in RL but I suppose the GM could give a firmer answer on that.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

The other thing I am considering is that, I believe, we really ought to leave before the end of the training/recruitment season. We need to be handing those duties off to the Afghani forces too before we leave, and once the more active combat season begins again the Afghani forces will already be responsible for all security. If we are still operating there in the Spring the security vacuum when we leave could actually be more severe than if we leave earlier.

I know I said I would stay out of it... but I wanted to make a comment on the Senator's reasonable points.

The military reason for staying on until the end of the training/recruitment season is to make sure that the Afghan forces are as strong as they can be before we leave. This has been a particularly difficult year and as we are deciding to leave, I believe we do have a responsibility to make that transition as balanced and effective as possible.

The coalition forces, as part of the restructuring agreement are the ones responsible for training - and therefore we do need to have some continuing presence.

I should stress that I'm not talking about all of our troops being there until May and then they all leave the next day. It will be a measured draw-down from the moment the order is given, the areas where troops can leave, they will leave, but the areas where more effort is required to build the Afghani's military capacity we will focus more attention to ensure the deadline is met.

Just thought I should make that point.

[Ban my account ffs!]

In the compromise plan I offered, I did allow for a small contingent of troops to remain in Afghanistan to provide personal protection for high government officials.  I said that highly trained troops should perform this action and that there needn't be a withdrawal date for this very specific mission.

Otherwise, my offer was to get the troops out by March 1st (save the small contingent outlined above).

The President offered having the troops out by May 1st with the contingent force out by the end of next year, mostly to train Afghan troops to perform the job of protecting the government officials.

I plan to support the bill as it is currently... but if the veto should be sustained, I will offer the compromise measure in its place. 

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

May 1st would seem like an acceptable date if all the leaders are in agreement that it is the best decision. The last thing I want, as I'm sure the rest of us can agree, is for us to leave and the whole country collapses. Then we have wasted countless lives and billions of dollars for no reason at all. We need to make sure the coalition forces are adequately trained before we pull everyone out, or the likelihood the above scenario happens is very real.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

I don't at all like the idea of our troops serving as personal bodyguards to foreign officials. That just furthers the impression that it is we, not the Afghans themselves, who are running their country. But other than that, I think Snowguy's timeframe makes sense.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

I don't at all like the idea of our troops serving as personal bodyguards to foreign officials. That just furthers the impression that it is we, not the Afghans themselves, who are running their country. But other than that, I think Snowguy's timeframe makes sense.

We aren't serving as body guards in the true sense of the word, once our combat/training mission has been concluded - as we are there to help ensure stability and we have our own diplomatic presence to consider the protection of.

I really do understand all of these points, but I think there are serious practical considerations beyond what we "should" or "shouldn't" be doing.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

Guys, considering what is going on in Libya right now, it might be a good idea to take a breath for now.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

It's been two days. We can't just sit here indefinately.