UK General Discussion

[You kip if you want to...]

As something of a British politics novice, why is Clegg so hated?

It's a long story.

The short version is that he thrashed Cameron and Brown at the debates for the 2010 election, he got approval ratings unseen since Churchill (became known as "Cleggmania"). He backed Cameron for PM despite his base being more inclined to Labour. He back-tracked on countless key pledges and he hadn't campaigned on austerity. He's generally just seen as a spineless, weak sellout who'd sell his own mother to keep hold of his ministerial limo.

Google "Nick Clegg uturn" and you'll be able to start piecing it together.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

As something of a British politics novice, why is Clegg so hated?

Because he is the personification of roughly 75% of what's wrong with politics.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

As for party leaders, low approval ratings are kind of the norm in the UK anyway.

[afleitch]

In all honesty Nick Clegg did nothing wrong other than be Nick Clegg. The Lib Dems sold themselves as the party everyone wanted them to be depending on who the audience was and whether they were contesting in the cities or the shires so people, being sheep generally, bought into the 'cuddly Labour' image the Lib Dems had cultivated (under Charles Kennedy) Clegg was always economically right of centre and in favour of certain policies that if the Tories proposed would have killed them. So it was natural he would have sought a coalition with the Tories. Labour then got angry because despite not engaging with the Lib Dems prior to the election they didn't get to form a coalition (and they would have needed other parties if they did) and voters who backed them (often with some smug self satisfaction) because they are in generally stupid creatures, realised that perhaps they weren't cuddly Labour after all and now vent their anger at them rather than deal with the fact they didn't inform themselves prior to casting their vote for them.

[You kip if you want to...]

and voters who backed them (often with some smug self satisfaction) because they are in generally stupid creatures, realised that perhaps they weren't cuddly Labour after all and now vent their anger at them rather than deal with the fact they didn't inform themselves prior to casting their vote for them.

That's true, definitely.

Just speak to any student who voted for them...

[Smid]

Afleitch is spot on, of course. The party was going to have to put one side or the other into office, and would have alienated about half of their voters either way.

Edit: I've heard it said (and it's probably a quote from somewhere) that you campaign in poetry but govern in prose. The Lib Dems, never having to worry about the unpopular decisions made by governing, were able to attract a broad range of support. When they actually had the power to make a decision, they obviously upset some of that support.

[Leftbehind]

It's rather missing the point that the Lib Dems weren't immediately catapulted into dismal figures upon the agreement of a coalition with the Tories; rather, they got there by the coalition's absurdly conservative platform (disavowing promises to be the breaks on a Tory government with pathetic - and frankly astonishing - excuses like arguing that their power in negotiations was equal to their disgracefully distorted representation in parliament, ignoring the Conservatives wouldn't be able to pass anything without them) with next to nothing to show from the coalition on their side and an entire catalogue of betrayals. In fact the security of a coalition 'that come together for the nation' has allowed them to out-Thatcherite Thatcher and claim it's centrist pragmatism.

But I realise it's more convenient for right-wingers and general apologists for current governance to blame the electorate and supposed pie-in-the-sky promises (funnily enough ones you'd find any social liberal party promoting) that just couldn't be delivered.

and voters who backed them (often with some smug self satisfaction) because they are in generally stupid creatures, realised that perhaps they weren't cuddly Labour after all and now vent their anger at them rather than deal with the fact they didn't inform themselves prior to casting their vote for them.

That's true, definitely.

Just speak to any student who voted for them...

Are you being sarcastic here? Because not only is the point bollocks, that's possibly the worst example you could've chosen to bolster it.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Eric Joyce has been arrested for fighting in a bar. Again.

[Leftbehind]

[minionofmidas]

That man is a hero.

[MaxQue]

That man is a hero.

That man is an alcoholic, who really need help.
Alcoholism isn't fun or anything, it's a disease.

[minionofmidas]

That man is a hero.

That man is an alcoholic, who really need help.
Alcoholism isn't fun or anything, it's a disease.

Admittedly.

I admire him for the things he does when drunk, though, not for the drink problem itself - which is fairly ubiquitous in politics anyways. Much better to hit Tories over the head than to hit on female journalists like Rainer Brüderle, drive your car into a ditch like Jörg Haider or fall down the stairs like Karen McCarthy. Though Rainer Ortleb's drunken speeches in parliament (while a member of the cabinet) are classics. That have apparently been deleted from youtube.

[Goodwin]

How are all the leaders so unpopular?

Very much a "plague on all your houses" feeling amongst the public as a hangover from the expenses scandal.

David Cameron's seen as an out-of-touch Etonian who can't control his party and last year's budget was a disaster and blatantly proved what people think about him, Ed Miliband's seen as an economically incompetent union-funded Brownite with the charisma of a leather boot who has problems with the party because he's not the one "they" picked and Nick Clegg's just... Nick Clegg.

The first approval poll (ever, I believe) for Farage was out today actually. He's got a +9 net. How disgusting.

Interesting - to me, Farage is very strange man, and he is only popular due to a large anti-government protest at the moment. My mate calls him the "funny fascist".

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Some more details...

You must be logged in to read this quote.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/eric-joyce-shamed-politician-allegedly-1765532

[Filuwaúrdjan]

While his local paper has published the following photo:

[You kip if you want to...]

How are all the leaders so unpopular?

Very much a "plague on all your houses" feeling amongst the public as a hangover from the expenses scandal.

David Cameron's seen as an out-of-touch Etonian who can't control his party and last year's budget was a disaster and blatantly proved what people think about him, Ed Miliband's seen as an economically incompetent union-funded Brownite with the charisma of a leather boot who has problems with the party because he's not the one "they" picked and Nick Clegg's just... Nick Clegg.

The first approval poll (ever, I believe) for Farage was out today actually. He's got a +9 net. How disgusting.

Interesting - to me, Farage is very strange man, and he is only popular due to a large anti-government protest at the moment. My mate calls him the "funny fascist".

What makes me sick though is that people don't even care about what UKIP stands for. No one sees that they're so to the right that they make the Tories look leftist.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Joyce has been indefinitely banned from all bars in Parliament.

[You kip if you want to...]

Jump to the right...
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/03/16/cameron-spring-conference-battle-labour-socialists_n_2890437.html?utm_hp_ref=uk

[You kip if you want to...]

ComRes peg it at 37-28-17-9 (you can guess which party's which).

If UKIP have broken into 15-20%, they're too close for comfort to the Tories, even for me. Is 2015 gonna be a reverse 1983?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Much too early to even start thinking in that general direction.

[Хahar 🤔]

These numbers might lead us to believe that if it were Canada, but there's no indication that the British right-wing electorate would desert the Conservative Party en masse at a general election.

[You kip if you want to...]

Some tidbits from recent YouGovs.

Cameron's on his lowest Preferred Prime Minister rating since October, but EdM's also been losing out to Don't Know. EdM's also back ahead in net approval for the first time since November, but he's only circling around -25 to -30ish. It's more that Cameron's gradually sinking.

Cameron's starting to creep down quite considerably after it looked like he'd recovered to pre-omnishambles levels of around -10 to -15 a few weeks back.

He's starting to lose support amongst Tory voters after being the only leader to have unwavering support from his base for the past 2-3 years, until now. The reasoning's pretty obvious: Eastleigh'll have annoyed the diehards, UKIP's starting to look quite appealing to said diehards, but they're not willing to go over just yet. I would've thought he'd be going up with his base, rather than down with UKIP gaining ground, but apparently not.

The pretty loud leadership speculation must be quite destabilising as well. Theresa May's starting to look less bad as a prospect than she did a week or two ago, although there's still no enthusiasm for any of the realistic candidates, who all have low name rec anyway. UKIPers have also swung behind her, she was thought to make a worse leader by 4% last week with them, now she's "better" by 16%. If the media runs with this (as they have a habit of running with pointless sub-samples), it'll catch the attention of some corners of the Tory backbenches, surely. She's also gone from -29 to -14 among Tory voters. She has momentum...

Also, I don't see how Osborne survives another disaster budget - his approval's at 17%, even below Clegg.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

So long as his internal position is strong he can survive being less popular than cancer, if need be.

[politicus]

So long as his internal position is strong he can survive being less popular than cancer, if need be.

At some point being an electoral liability will influence his internal position.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

We can but hope.