JFK Lives

[Historico]

Ok Ben, son when should we see the next installment...Will a nother Southern Governor fail at resolving the Iranian Hostage Crisis...I eagerly wait to find out.

[Historico]

By the Gods an Update lol, I enjoyed very thorughly and suprised how Progressive Hearne's is handling the issues of the day especially on something like NAFTA. Yet as the economy goes, there goes the incumbent...I am looking forward to how Hearnes handels the Iran-Hostage Crisis, and I am pulling for Brooke to geting the GOP nomination....But as far as I know It could go either way(Brokering a Peace agreement between Egypt and Israel, would be one hell of an October Suprise)...Keep it comming

[Historico]

A solid yet sobering installment Ben...I do have a question, who is Hearnes' Secretary of State ITTL? Because it was during this time in OTL, that the Neoconservatives(Scoop Jackson Democrats) left the party under Carter's Idealist foriegn policy views. Would your say that the Neoconservatives are still with the party or might they still bolt, under the plumenting Hearnes' Administration?

Also, it seems that Hearnes may face a primary challenge by any number of Candidates...I doubt anyone from the South(Although im not sure about Jimmy and Askew) will probably challenge him. Scoop may try to make a final run at the thing and either Bobby or Teddy from the left. It will be very interesting.

Things on the GOP side will be interesting as well...Looking at it from a purly Political standpoint after such a massive defeat in the 1976 Election, I don't think a Conservative in the mold of former President Tower or  Governor Reagan can win the 1980 Election. And for the time being the nation is still a Center to Left country. Any number of moderates could throw their hat in the wing; Edward Brooke(Who I am especially pulling for), Howard Baker, George H.W. Bush, David Rockefeller and even former Vice President Nixon(Which would be very interesting, especially if we can get Iran-Contra to a Watergate level of Scandal) would all be very strong ticket my guess...Brooke/Baker(Or the otherway around) or even Nixon/Rockefeller would be some hella strong tickets.

Can't wait to see how the election turns out...Keep it comming

[Historico]

President Hatfield...Can't say I saw that one coming lol, IIRC, George H.W. Bush is Senator from Texas, as he was appointed to fill Tower's seat when he vacated it for the Presidency Correct? It's sad to see President Hearnes go down in such a massive defeat, hopefully he'll be able to revitilize his legacy, in the Post-Presidency much like OTL Carter did.

Looking at Hatfield's record, we should see a pretty bipartisan cabinent...The more interesting idea however, what will happen to the Social Conservatives ITTL, will they stay as a major third party influence or gravitate back toward either the Democrats or Republicans. In the GOP is can forsee the party taking a more libertarian stance toward economic and social policy, as Hatfield was a big proponent for Gay and Abortion rights. And assuming that Hatfield's sway over white working-class voters in the Rust Belt is not as artificial as I think it is(They voted against Hearnes not for Hatfield).

The Democrats however, can take either two ways...be the Mcgovern Party of 1972 or the Carter Party of 1976. What I mean by that is that the New Deal Coalition died pretty much with HHH, and theres going to be a split over what role to take the party esp if the GOP takes the Industrial states. Either the Upper-Class Liberalism of Mcgovern and the New Left, which doesn't work, or the Born-Again evangelical Centrists of Jimmy Carter and the New South which does.

Seeing how this all plays out without Nixon to help craft and shape effectively both parties for the last 40 years is really cool. Btw what are the other Kennedy's up to? and as always Keep It Comming

[Historico]

I would think Bobby would do something politically rated.

Or atleast stay within the legal community...He would still be fairly young, and I honestly think he would make one hell of a SCOTUS.

[Historico]

Nice update Ben...I know that Writer's block can be a bitch when your trying to get an update out. So I assume the economic package that Hatfield got throught Congress wasn't full scale Supply-side economics but traditional Fiscal conservatism by slashing taxes etc? Was there an assasination attempt by John Hinckley? And have the conditions changed from what started the 82-83 Recession in OTL or have they just been pushed back? Cuz if things were as bad as they were in OTL Early '80's the might hinder Hatfield's reelection chances.

[Historico]

1.  The Hatfield package was a mix of tax cuts, incentives to businesses, short term welfare, and various other things designed to keep the economy running.
2.  No assassination attempt as of now by Mr. Hinckley.
3.  It's a mix.  The economy is still at risk, but things are looking up.

Hmm...So a quick fix to the economic troubles, but nothing really longterm like High Speed Rail, Public Work's programs or educational funding...Although Progressive, Hatfield is still probably is a "cut the pork" Republican. And a Hinckley assasination could be waiting for the wings..Can't wait for the next installment and as always...Keep it Comming.

[Historico]

I was not expecting such a push on Gay Rights this early by Hatfield, but with his libertarian leanings and the rising of the aids pandemic, I think its pretty plausible. Getting Hatfield to get the treaty between Israel and Egypt will probably cement his Legacy more than anything(Like OTL Carter). I am suprised however, that with Hatfield being such a huge advocate for the nuclear freeze during OTL , that he wouldn't try to get something passed with the Soviets ITTL. Might he try to save it for his second term? cuz I think the movement lost steam in the mid to late 80's IOTL. Eagerly awaiting for the update on the '84 elections.

[Historico]

Well, Ill be a monkey's uncle, I was not expecting the update on the '84 election so soon lol. Neither was I expecting for Duke to get the nod, but he was the pinacle for the White Ethnics who had begun to dominate the party from the 70's and 80's so it's not suprising he would still run. Zorinsky would have been a good pic if would have had more of a national profile. Btw did Vice President Church still sucumb to pancreatic cancer as he did IOTL. I am looking forward to see what else Hatfield gets done in second term. Keep it comming

[Historico]

Your county maps are pretty impressive Deeds, it shows your expertise in the political field to show each candidates perdicted areas of strength. So when can we expect the next installment featuring Hatfield's Second Term.

[Historico]

I'll have the Hatfield Administration done this week.

Cool Beans, I can't wait to see how two reformers such as President Hatfield and General Secretary Gorbachev or going to get along. Keep it comming.

[Historico]

Very good story. I've always thought of him as a good presidential candidate..I am looking forward to President Hatfield's second term.

Thanks

I get home Friday afternoon, and should have an update that night.

Hope you made it home from your vaction alright Ben; Writer's Block can be a stickler right lol?

[Historico]

Tomorrow, tomorrow, an update, tomorrow, it's only a day away! 

So much for that

I second that sentiment lol.

[Historico]

Writer's Block is kicking my ass.  I'l lget an update out tomorrow, I promise.  I have been working on the 1985-1987 installment, and it will be done tomorrow.

Hey atleast you know you have some loyal readers here lol, but yeah like I said you the biggest thing to ease my writer's block is discussing certain aspects that Im having with the timeline with other board members. I find it really helpful...you should definatley try it Ben

[Historico]

Im suprised you still have Brezhenv still alive ITTL's 1985-1987, I think Hatfield would have gotten alot more accomplished working with a Reformer like Gorbachev. Things aren't looking to good for the GOP in 1988, especially if Bush's health issues' force him out of the Race early. Maybe a Moderate like Senator Hart and Senator Gore might clinch the nod for the Democrats. Can't wait to see what you come up Ben...and as always Keep it comming.

[Historico]

Im suprised you still have Brezhenv still alive ITTL's 1985-1987, I think Hatfield would have gotten alot more accomplished working with a Reformer like Gorbachev. Things aren't looking to good for the GOP in 1988, especially if Bush's health issues' force him out of the Race early. Maybe a Moderate like Senator Hart and Senator Gore might clinch the nod for the Democrats. Can't wait to see what you come up Ben...and as always Keep it comming.

Any answer to why Brezhenev's still alive an kicking ITTL Ben lol?

[Historico]

Hmm 1988 should be a very interesting race especially if Bush doesn't run due to Health Concerns. First on the Democratic Side, Although I'm a hughe Coumo fan, I don't think the party is stupid enough to nominate a Northern Liberal after The Duke's disastorus '84 Campaign. They will probably shift toward the DLC Democrats earlier than IOTL, that mean's folks like Senator Gary Hart of Colorado, former Governor Bruce Babbitt of of Arizona, Governor Chuck Robb of Virginia, and Senator Al Gore of Tennesse would all be strong choices to win the nomination and possibly beat the GOP in the General Election. Senator Dale Bumpers of Arkansas and Senator John Glenn of Ohio would be a good choice as well.

On the Republican side, you'd proably have around the same list of Candidates as IOTL, Dole, Kemp, Laxalt, Du Pont, Rumsfeld. However, I think the GOP would proably look for someone who could trully be their heir to the Hatfield throne...John Chafee would be a good choice, but his age would probably work against him...Al D'Amato of New York, George Deukmajean of California, and Big Jim Thompson of Illinois could work as well. Just throwing some ideas out there, nothing wrong with a litte discussioon now and then right? lol, Keep this TL comming

[Historico]

Wow wasn't expecting Hatfield to take such an hardline against the Soviets with an trade Embargo, I guess even the best of us gets cantankerous as we get older lol. The Homeless Act was a nice piece of Progressive Legislation, and I can't wait to see what you've got cooked up for '88 Ben...Im assuming a Peace Democrat wins the nomination someone the likes of Ron Dellums of California, Paul Simon of Illinois, Patricia Schoeder of Colorado, George Mcgoven of South Dakota, and Martha Layne Collins of Kentucky would all be good choices...Keep it comming

[Historico]

The 1988 Election will probably come out later today or Thursday.

We look forward to it

[Historico]

Wow you are a master at keeping your Presidential candidates unknown Ben. Having Lawton Chiles as President will be pretty interesting, especially since his health really never recovered after his triple-Bi-pass surgery IOTL 1985. Dole/Kemp in 1988 was a nice touch as well, and it makes sense the Lawton didn't pick Dellums for Vice President, as needed the entire south to coble together even a narrow victory. Biden's youth applies to baby boomer's and his Catholic, White Working class routes appeal to voters in the rust belt. Maybe he should give Dellums the post of Secretary of State or Secretary of Defense. Just ideas, and I look forward to the first term of our nation's 40th President

[Historico]

Awesome County map, and with the GOP's habit of giving the nomination to the previous Primary's runner up...Im going to perdict either Pete Dupont or Dick Thornburgh in '92 already. Looking forward to the Chiles Presidency...Keep it comming Ben.

[Historico]

I bump thee.

Tomorrow or Monday, most likely.

Untill then...Here's a recap, for the first half of the timeline...

JFK Lives: Presidents of the United States

35. John F. “Jack” Kennedy (D-MA): January 20th 1961-January 20th 1969
36. John Tower (R-TX): January 20th 1969-January 20th 1973
37. Hubert H. Humphrey (D-MN): January 20th 1973-August 8th 1975*
38. Warren E. Hearnes (D-MO): August 8th 1975-January 20th 1981
39. Mark O. Hatfield (R-OR): January 20th 1981-January 20th 1989
40. Lawton M. Chiles Jr. (D-FL): January 20th 1989-???

Notes

37. Died in office due to an aortic aneurism.

JFK Lives: Vice-Presidents of the United States

37. Lyndon B. Johnson (D-TX): January 20th 1961-January 20th 1965
38. George A. Smathers (D-FL): January 20th 1965-January 20th 1969
39. Spiro T. Agnew (R-MD): January 20th 1969-January 20th 1973
40. Warren E. Hearnes (D-MO): January 20th 1973-August 8th 1975
Vacant: August 8th 1975-January 20th 1977
41. Frank F. Church III (D-ID): January 20th 1977-January 20th 1981
42. George H.W. Bush (R-TX): January 30th 1981-January 20th 1989
43. Joseph R. “Joe” Biden Jr. (D-DE): January 20th 1989-???

JFK Lives: Failed Tickets

1964: Barry M. Goldwater (R-AZ)/William Scranton (R-PA)
1968: George A. Smathers (D-FL)/Henry M. “Scoop” Jackson (D-WA): William C. Westmoreland (A-SC)/Lester G. Maddox (A-GA)
1972: John Tower (R-TX)/Spiro T. Agnew (R-MD): Lester G. Maddox (A-GA)/John M. Ashbrook (A-OH)
1976: Ronald W. Reagan (R-CA)/Gerald R. Ford (R-MI)
1980: Warren E. Hearnes (D-MO)/Frank F. Church III (D-ID): Jesse A. Helms Jr. (A-NC)/Dr. Otis R. Bowen (A-IN)
1984: Michael S. “Mike” Dukakis (D-MA)/Lloyd M. Bentsen (D-TX)
1988: Robert J. “Bob” Dole (R-KA)/Jack F. Kemp (R-NY)

[Historico]

Wow, it's good to see this bird back up again...the Chiles Presidency been pretty good so far, especially with a early yet successful conclusion to the Gulf War. I could see him bringing on board a major piece of Child Health Care legislation. Im just wondering if his he might die sooner than IOTL, due to the stresses of the Presidency...Can't wait to see the rest of the Chiles 1st term and the '92 election...Keep it comming

[Historico]

After rereading the last installment, Im actually suprised Lawton doesn't have a really inclusive cabinent Deed's, especially as a progressive New South former Governor. He only has one Female, and one Asian American member of his cabinent. I don't think the African American Democratic Base would be to happy about that especially after the close nature of the Dellums/Chiles shootout in the primaries.

[Historico]

Yeah...I know University puts big timelines like my Reagan in '68 TL, and TTL's on Ice for a majority of the semester. Atleast this way its in the back of your mind, with Ideas churning on different ways you could take it....Keep it comming Ben