Margaret Thatcher dies at 87

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Well, Sir Mortimer Chris was worse PM.

[BluegrassBlueVote]

Tweed already posted the Greenwald piece which is very important. It is very damaging for supporters of a deceased politician to write hagiographies, rewrite history by propagandizing him/her, and exploit his/her death to push their own ideologies, while at the same time denying opponents the opportunity to critique under the guise of "respect for the dead."

But I'm glad that the "terrorist" Mandela outlived her at least.

Completely agree with both this and the piece. When am I, as a critic of her, allowed to speak ill of her policies again? Is there an official waiting period I'm supposed to adhere to unless I open myself to calls of insensitivity? Is it tomorrow, a week from now, or even a month?

Not official, but after the funeral would be polite, I'd say.

So every (respectful) column that criticizes her premiership is allowed to be filed the minute after she's lowered into the ground?

The kind of walls our societies try to put between thoughtful dialogue and death is very troublesome. Political leaders are incredibly controversial individuals for the entirety of their careers, and I don't believe some artificial safeguard should be raised during their passing that somehow canonizes them. The children among the detractors should be rightfully criticized, but her poll tax is still as awful today as it was yesterday and it's not the worst thing in the world if someone brings that up.

[Paleobrazilian]

I guess it all comes down to how you show your disagreements. As long as you're respectful, there's no problem with putting your opinion forward.

Plus, admit many people love her and her legacy, and this will not change. Conservatives better hope she doesn't become a Reagan-like ghost, to whom all members of the party will be compared.

[BluegrassBlueVote]

I guess it all comes down to how you show your disagreements. As long as you're respectful, there's no problem with putting your opinion forward.

Plus, admit many people love her and her legacy, and this will not change. Conservatives better hope she doesn't become a Reagan-like ghost, to whom all members of the party will be compared.

Thatcher is nowhere near as idolized in Britain as Reagan still is in America. Reagan's policies have been rightfully repudiated by the left here, but there is nothing close to the vitriol for the man as Thatcherism faces across the pond. At worst, he's characterized as the napper-in-chief, not as a divisive monster.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Wow.

Well, RIP, I guess.

[You kip if you want to...]

I guess it all comes down to how you show your disagreements. As long as you're respectful, there's no problem with putting your opinion forward.

Plus, admit many people love her and her legacy, and this will not change. Conservatives better hope she doesn't become a Reagan-like ghost, to whom all members of the party will be compared.

Thatcher is nowhere near as idolized in Britain as Reagan still is in America. Reagan's policies have been rightfully repudiated by the left here, but there is nothing close to the vitriol for the man as Thatcherism faces across the pond. At worst, he's characterized as the napper-in-chief, not as a divisive monster.

Thatcher is held up as an idol by Tories, but it's nowhere near as electorally successful. If anything, her image is still a liability for the Tories (see their lack of a majority in 2010).

[Sbane]

I am so glad Nelson Mandela outlived the ****.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

That's an excellent point.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Like I said in another thread, some people might think the Brits who aren't exactly mourning are behaving petty or classless, but I do wonder what they'd say about the reactions of those who lived in Pinochet's Chile or black South Africans who lived under apartheid.

[politicus]

I posted this at the end of last year and stand by it:

Thatcher defined large sections of British society as her personal enemies and shaped government policy accordingly. Worse, she didn't even bother to disguise that fact. This is not something that normally happens in democracies.

This is (still) a good point and quite central when you compare her legacy to Reagans, since there is no way you can say the same about him.

[Leftbehind]

Also of relevance:

"I always cheer up immensely if an attack is particularly wounding because I think, well, if they attack one personally, it means they have not a single political argument left."

Like she did when describing Mandela as a terrorist? Or the sections of our society she labelled enemies? The hypocrisy from the Right is truly overbearing in this thread.

Like I said in another thread, some people might think the Brits who aren't exactly mourning are behaving petty or classless, but I do wonder what they'd say about the reactions of those who lived in Pinochet's Chile or black South Africans who lived under apartheid.

That's a point forgotten amidst the domestic evils. We leftists have to show "respect" to Thatcher's death, while she supported our counterparts being slaughtered in Chile with absolutely none, even vouching for the mass-murderer long after realpolitik could be used an excuse.

[BluegrassBlueVote]

I posted this at the end of last year and stand by it:

Thatcher defined large sections of British society as her personal enemies and shaped government policy accordingly. Worse, she didn't even bother to disguise that fact. This is not something that normally happens in democracies.

This is (still) a good point and quite central when you compare her legacy to Reagans, since there is no way you can say the same about him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_queen

[You kip if you want to...]

I posted this at the end of last year and stand by it:

Thatcher defined large sections of British society as her personal enemies and shaped government policy accordingly. Worse, she didn't even bother to disguise that fact. This is not something that normally happens in democracies.

This is (still) a good point and quite central when you ccompare her legacy to Reagans, since there is no way you can say the same about him.

While the two were ideological bedfellows, the basic structure of the US government rendered any attempts to implement such an agenda, in the same manner and to the same degree as Thatcher was able to do here in the UK, simply impossible.

And as such, Reagan will never attract the vitriol in the US that Thatcher does in the UK.

[Vosem]

You may have missed another recent obituary, that of Alastair Milne. He was the Director General of the BBC and was effectively fired by the Thatcher government for political reasons. Try again...

Right, but the BBC is governed by the British government; it isn't a private company. Callaghan's Ministers also had to leave office -- you expect positions to shift when you elect a new government, otherwise what would be the point of democracy? But privately owned leftist newspapers continued to function just as before.

Vosem, I'm guessing you're not familiar with the London County Council or its successor.

I'm not; a quick Wikipedia glance informs me that it was disbanded in 1965. Please do tell me more.

[politicus]

I posted this at the end of last year and stand by it:

Thatcher defined large sections of British society as her personal enemies and shaped government policy accordingly. Worse, she didn't even bother to disguise that fact. This is not something that normally happens in democracies.

This is (still) a good point and quite central when you compare her legacy to Reagan's, since there is no way you can say the same about him.

http://en.wiped.org/Viki/Welfare_queen

Reagan used scapegoats in his rhetoric, but he didn't define them as enemies in the same way.

[Supersonic]

I am so glad Nelson Mandela outlived the ****.

No.

[Franzl]

I am so glad Nelson Mandela outlived the ****.

No.

Margaret Thatcher is a better person than Nelson Mandela?

[Leftbehind]

Right, but the BBC is governed by the British government;

lol

Vosem, I'm guessing you're not familiar with the London County Council or its successor.

I'm not; a quick Wikipedia glance informs me that it was disbanded in 1965. Please do tell me more.

GLC.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

Rest in peace and may God bless her soul.

Love your enemy, guys.

[Oldiesfreak1854]

Definitely changed the world, regardless of your opinion of her.

RIP.

Same here.

[LastVoter]

[BluegrassBlueVote]

I posted this at the end of last year and stand by it:

Thatcher defined large sections of British society as her personal enemies and shaped government policy accordingly. Worse, she didn't even bother to disguise that fact. This is not something that normally happens in democracies.

This is (still) a good point and quite central when you compare her legacy to Reagan's, since there is no way you can say the same about him.

http://en.wiped.org/Viki/Welfare_queen

Reagan used scapegoats in his rhetoric, but he didn't define them as enemies in the same way.

Instilling them subliminally and deliberately fostering racial conflict is so much better, you're right.

All Reagan's team did was play the game differently.

[Smid]

RIP.

[countydurhamboy]

I have no wish to get into a flame war today, so..

RIP Margaret Thatcher. For a state educated woman, daughter of a Grocer to rise the very top of British politics and stay there longer than anybody in the 20th century is a truly remarkable achievement. Unlike our current incumbent she didn't require a call from buckingham palace to succeed, she rose via hard work and commitment.  Love her or hate her, she has achieved a lasting impact both in the UK and overseas that very few politicians can match or indeed ever hope to match.

While the memories of most prime Ministers will fade, I suspect that Thatcher will have a legacy that will never be forgotten.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Rest in peace and may God bless her soul.

Love your enemy, guys.

^

Having said that, I definitely understand the absence of such a generous sentiment in others.