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Author Topic: Question Time with Marokai and PS  (Read 3965 times)
Purple State
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« Reply #25 on: February 01, 2011, 08:02:57 pm »
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I think ideas about giving the VP position more legislative responsibilities is worth discussing. There have been some in the past that have proposed giving the Vice President the full powers of a Senator. I, honestly, wouldn't be opposed to such an idea if it was ever on the table.


That actually is quite a good idea. I must say that you're at the very least running a campaign that's strong on ideas and policy, even if I'm not entirely a part of your team.

Can I also inform as to your (op)position on the idea to whipe out all of Atlasia's economical history? Would you mind explaining to me why you disagree with the idea that this would help to assure that Senate legislation actually does matter?

I can take this one since Maro got to the VP-related question. Wink

In the last iteration of a PS/Marokai administration, we did present the possibility of a "legislative reset" as part of the new Constitution, which essentially would have given the game an opportunity for a do-over. However, the people and the Constitutional Convention generally opposed the idea and we let it die.

Now, while we are usually not ones to let something just go away, this is something we both agreed needs to be truly desired by Atlasians. Wiping the slate clean needs to be an organic, bottom-up effort, otherwise you lose the whole game. Some people have spent quite a long time building up certain parts of the game and the institutional memory is not necessarily a bad thing.

At the end of the day, the current economic conditions do add an element to the game, as it has given us quite a number of problems to fix. A reboot could make the game more boring.

As a final thought, I should note that when I was GM I did make it an implicit goal to present issues and "mark" legislation in ways that would identify problems and then allow Atlasians to solve them. Any GMs ability to number crunch in a fantasy world with limited data should be readily apparent. But if you're going to create a problem, you need to allow for the nation to solve the problem as well. That is why we no longer have a crushing national debt or an unhappy relationship with Venezuela.
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« Reply #26 on: February 01, 2011, 09:49:43 pm »
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Let's lay out a timeline of events:

1. Marokai posts a lengthly non-sequitur rant directed towards me in a thread I haven't even posted in.

2. I make a legitimate, factual criticism of Marokai in the thread that he started for that very purpose.

3. I'm the bad guy.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2011, 10:01:22 pm by Four Loko »Logged

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Kalwejt
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« Reply #27 on: February 01, 2011, 11:15:04 pm »
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2. I make a legitimate, factual criticism of Marokai in the thread that he started for that very purpose.

Hey, dude, how is Marokai's real life a legitimate, factual criticism in Atlasia?

Yeah, I know, I criticized Tmthforu over this cat thing, but I was wrong to bring this to Atlasia. Perhaps it's a time for you to realize the same thing?
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bgwah
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« Reply #28 on: February 02, 2011, 01:38:14 am »
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Wormyguy's comments in this thread are basically on the same level of what I've had to put up with the entire campaign so far, so I really see no reason why I should let it bother me.

Oh, brother...
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Purple State
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« Reply #29 on: February 02, 2011, 01:57:23 am »
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Wormyguy's comments in this thread are basically on the same level of what I've had to put up with the entire campaign so far, so I really see no reason why I should let it bother me.

Oh, brother...

I'm sorry, but we need you to phrase that in the form of a question.
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Scottish Robb Stark
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« Reply #30 on: February 02, 2011, 04:44:43 am »
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I really don't understand the standards of the moderating system now.

Apparently saying that wormyguy "can't make a single post without acting like a dick" is considered as a personal attack despite the fact it directly regards the forum and that everybody can see it's true. But when wormyguy throws nasty remarks about a user's personal life, he's free to do so because what he says is supposedly true. As it happened for Libertas, mods seems more concerned about protecting the trolls from being called trolls than actuall infracting their own trolling.
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« Reply #31 on: February 02, 2011, 07:40:52 am »

I really don't understand the standards of the moderating system now.

Apparently saying that wormyguy "can't make a single post without acting like a dick" is considered as a personal attack despite the fact it directly regards the forum and that everybody can see it's true. But when wormyguy throws nasty remarks about a user's personal life, he's free to do so because what he says is supposedly true. As it happened for Libertas, mods seems more concerned about protecting the trolls from being called trolls than actuall infracting their own trolling.

I think the first sentence is the only part of that post I'd agree with.

Wormguy: if you have issues with how another moderator moderates on another board, bring it up with him. It isn't going to affect how I moderate things here. If you think other people are being mean and unreasonable, I guess you will have to try and persuade them.
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bgwah
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« Reply #32 on: February 03, 2011, 04:14:23 am »
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Wormyguy's comments in this thread are basically on the same level of what I've had to put up with the entire campaign so far, so I really see no reason why I should let it bother me.

Oh, brother...

I'm sorry, but we need you to phrase that in the form of a question.

A question? Okay, for the running mate:

When you were running for President, you really wanted me to endorse you, and promised me that you would join the JCP if the DA collapsed. The DA collapsed soon after, but you instead created your own party (The Game Reformer's Alliance, or something along those lines IIRC).

So my questions are:
1) Why do you think it is okay to lie to someone's face like that just to win a game?
2) Why should anyone believe anything you say?

Thanks in advance Smiley
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Purple State
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« Reply #33 on: February 03, 2011, 11:40:15 pm »
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Wormyguy's comments in this thread are basically on the same level of what I've had to put up with the entire campaign so far, so I really see no reason why I should let it bother me.

Oh, brother...

I'm sorry, but we need you to phrase that in the form of a question.

A question? Okay, for the running mate:

When you were running for President, you really wanted me to endorse you, and promised me that you would join the JCP if the DA collapsed. The DA collapsed soon after, but you instead created your own party (The Game Reformer's Alliance, or something along those lines IIRC).

So my questions are:
1) Why do you think it is okay to lie to someone's face like that just to win a game?
2) Why should anyone believe anything you say?

Thanks in advance Smiley

I can answer that one easily: Around the time of the elections I actually cared about party affiliation. I no longer really do. If it means enough to you I'll join the JCP right now. But I think it should be clear to anyone in Atlasia that my "partisan activities," if that is what my party-related actions can be called, have never had anything to do with anything else I do in this game.

So can they trust me to stay in a single party? Well I already left the UDL over the course of this campaign, so who knows. But they can certainly trust that I'll fight to reform this game the same way I have since I got here.

And you are so very very velcome! Wink
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« Reply #34 on: February 04, 2011, 04:27:56 pm »
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Marokai, when you're going to update statute page? It's been over a month, you know.

Oh, since I'm oficially your boss for next few days, consider this as an order.
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« Reply #35 on: February 05, 2011, 03:16:14 pm »
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Oh, never mind. Since you didn't want to do your job, for what you once criticized Keystone Phil (wow, now we've got an irony here), a dedicated wiki user did it for you on my request.

Have a good time.
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Marokai Besieged
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« Reply #36 on: February 06, 2011, 06:31:53 pm »
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While I know you might find it easy to criticize me over not updating the wiki with literally a few pieces of legislation, I've been away from Atlasia for a few days because I've had my fill with all the bickering. (Oh, and the person you "requested" update the wiki instead, lol, you're very subtle.)

Since my campaign started I've been overwhelmed with nothing but bitchfest after bitchfest and controversy after bogus controversy. At every point of something I've done in this campaign, I've had some thorn in my side trying to bicker me to death over it. NCY sycophanticly defends Tmth over his errors, Tmth tries to attack me over little things that he eventually turns out to be wrong on, Snowguy bickers with me over how long my responses are in the debate thread, Wormyguy tries insulting me with personal information (which is also, you know, wrong), you stir the pot over the UDL primary and people accuse me of being some sort of mob boss, Bgwah takes the petty bickering over to Purple State here in this thread. It goes on and on. No one gives me any break and tries to argue and bicker over each individual little thing that never has to deal with policy. These are just things off the top of my head. I didn't go back to try and highlight my point by searching posts. 

Purple State and others in private know my frustration with it all in private, and if I didn't take some time off before the campaign moved into the homestretch, I'd go on a killing spree.

When people want to battle over policy and ideas, I'm always up for the fight. I love those fights. They're battles of ideas with the people having the best ideas and those who can explain them best coming out on top. But battles of personality I can't win, and battles of fake bitching I can't win. I can't fake what I do.

So yes, I took a break for a few days, and didn't eventually get around to updating the wiki with the legislation you can count on one hand in the entire 30+ days since the last time the statute was updated. Forgive me for not keeping up with such a busy legislative body.
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« Reply #37 on: February 06, 2011, 06:42:33 pm »
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Statute page haven't been updated for a month, not just "few days". That's one.

Second of all, don't try to tie me to Wormyguy's behavior, since I was the first to defend you on this ground.

And, last but not least, trust is important thing in Atlasia, and after all I know, I don't think I'd be able to trust both of you.

Have a nice day.
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Marokai Besieged
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« Reply #38 on: February 06, 2011, 06:44:11 pm »
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Statute page haven't been updated for a month, not just "few days". That's one.

While I know you might find it easy to criticize me over not updating the wiki with literally a few pieces of legislation,

....

So yes, I took a break for a few days, and didn't eventually get around to updating the wiki with the legislation you can count on one hand in the entire 30+ days since the last time the statute was updated. Forgive me for not keeping up with such a busy legislative body.
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bgwah
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« Reply #39 on: February 06, 2011, 06:44:34 pm »
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Bgwah takes the petty bickering over to Purple State here in this thread.

Actually, lying to someone just to win an internet game is what's petty. But I realize this is a strategy you also employ, so you will naturally defend it.

You can cry victim all you want, Marokai. But you're the won who destroyed at least four friendships just to make things "interesting." You're the one who called the JCP "disgusting" for running its own ticket. You're the one who lied to our faces more times than I can count. You're the one who posts out of context private conversations to slander those who do not kiss the ground you walk upon. You're the one who started a whole new party because you didn't want deal with primarying Fritz (That sure backfired, considering he isn't running and you got challenged by someone else anyway). At the end of the day, you'll never be President, and it is nobody's fault but your own. You can cry about policy all you want. People don't care about credit card bills. Nobody is going to read your 3700 word platform. This is a GAME. People come here to have FUN. Nobody doubts that you have all the time in the world to devote to Atlasia, but writing the longest posts doesn't make you the best candidate for President.
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« Reply #40 on: February 06, 2011, 06:46:26 pm »
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You're the one who called the JCP "disgusting" for running its own ticket. You're the one who lied to our faces more times than I can count. You're the one who posts out of context private conversations to slander those who do not kiss the ground you walk upon. You're the one who started a whole new party because you didn't want deal with primarying Fritz (That sure backfired, considering he isn't running and you got challenged by someone else anyway).

Interesting. I remember very well when a certain Atlasian was keeping asking me, if I know if Fritz will seek reelection or if I'll run instead. Heh.
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Marokai Besieged
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« Reply #41 on: February 06, 2011, 07:02:04 pm »
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You can cry victim all you want, Marokai. But you're the won who destroyed at least four friendships just to make things "interesting." You're the one who called the JCP "disgusting" for running its own ticket.

The JCP ticket was literally formed on personal animosity toward me and made up of two people who lied right to my face on more than one occasion. People whine until they're blue in the face about how evil I am but no one ever even bothers to point out the fact that Oakvale said he would run with me, then said he wouldn't run with me because he didn't want to run for anything, then ran for President, on Snowguy's urging specifically because Snowguy told me he was pissed at me and didn't want me to win. Or bothers to point out that Snowguy himself said he didn't want to run for anything either.

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You're the one who lied to our faces more times than I can count. You're the one who posts out of context private conversations to slander those who do not kiss the ground you walk upon.


I posted snippets about two private conversations when people were full of BS and I couldn't take it anymore. I'm not going to stand for people to outright lie in public like that or try to pretend they feel a way they clearly don't. You people treated Kalwejt like crap behind his back, but now you're all acting like he's 'back home' or some other nonsense. It's absurd.

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You're the one who started a whole new party because you didn't want deal with primarying Fritz (That sure backfired, considering he isn't running and you got challenged by someone else anyway).

Fritz had nothing to do with my decision. Why is it that no one can just deal with the simple rationale that I didn't think the previous political balance of power was good for the game? I explained precisely my reasons for founding the UDL. If I had stayed in the JCP I wouldn't have dared to primary anyone. This insane notion that I slashed my own political base so I could, and this is where is becomes crazy, have more power, is completely contradictory. If I wanted power I would've stayed in the JCP, where people would've voted for whoever the JCP ticket was without question, end of story.

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At the end of the day, you'll never be President, and it is nobody's fault but your own. You can cry about policy all you want. People don't care about credit card bills. Nobody is going to read your 3700 word platform. This is a GAME. People come here to have FUN.


And you know what, that's totally fine, if everyone stops the pretense about policy. If everyone stops this pathetic act about actually caring about any possible administration or acting like they want to 'solve the tough issues' facing Atlasia. I'll drop my focus on policy proposals when people stop pretending they actually give a damn.

Oakvale has barely proposed anything, Tmth is unsure of what to propose beyond wholesale plagiarism or the no-brainers, so yeah, you're probably right. I'm not going to deny that at the end of the day, no one seems to care about the deeper parts to Atlasia. But if that's the case, I want people to have the balls to say it out loud instead of being two-faced about it. If Oakvale wants to run on the "we're awesome people and Atlasia is just for fun! wooo!" platform, I am all for him doing so. Most JCP members would vote for him no matter what, anyway.

But until people are honest about their true feelings, I'll stick to publishing platforms and arguing over what people say they actually care about.

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Nobody doubts that you have all the time in the world to devote to Atlasia, but writing the longest posts doesn't make you the best candidate for President.

By the measure of "candidate with the prettiest smile and awesomest groupies!", you're probably right. Since that's what this campaign has devolved to, I'm 99.5% sure I'm headed for defeat.
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« Reply #42 on: February 06, 2011, 07:15:10 pm »
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The JCP ticket was literally formed on personal animosity toward me

I'm not following your logic. You, with help of others, myself including, caused a break within JCP and you were suprised JCP is running own ticket instead of throwing support behind you?

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You people treated Kalwejt like crap behind his back, but now you're all acting like he's 'back home' or some other nonsense. It's absurd.

I was wrong about bgwah, perhaps I listed to certain people BS too much, before I could verify all myself. Turns out, I was wrong about you too.
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bgwah
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« Reply #43 on: February 06, 2011, 07:17:00 pm »
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That's another thing I can't stand about this situation. Marokai says the split was for competition... unless he's running. Then we should all support him!

Your unity ticket last year with Purple State resulted in an incredibly boring election that hurt Atlasia. And you wanted the same thing here, despite your calls for competition. You claimed I was too partisan, because I wanted to run all-JCP tickets... You know what? All JCP tickets were way more interesting and competitive than unity super-tickets.

I posted snippets about two private conversations when people were full of BS and I couldn't take it anymore. I'm not going to stand for people to outright lie in public like that or try to pretend they feel a way they clearly don't. You people treated Kalwejt like crap behind his back, but now you're all acting like he's 'back home' or some other nonsense. It's absurd.

Hah. Is posting private convos really a game you want to play, Marokai? Because you will lose.
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« Reply #44 on: February 06, 2011, 07:22:55 pm »
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That's another thing I can't stand about this situation. Marokai says the split was for competition... unless he's running. Then we should all support him!

The reason I joined UDL at the very start, more: did a lot of recruitment work, was this: I wanted to help to create something new in Atlasia. But I didn't wanted it to become a sectarian tool for one member wild ambitions in an obscure, after all, GAME, not a tool for Xahar's trollish desires (I bet his three points are merely "bgwah is bad, bgwah must be stopped, bgwah is a devil").

Luckily Marokai soon will land in Atlasian history trashcan, and UDL, with so many great people inside, can be a force we can both cooperate around common values, or compete FOR THE FUN OF A GAME. Without all this BS, you, Marokai, are providing so willingly.
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« Reply #45 on: February 06, 2011, 07:25:26 pm »
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That's another thing I can't stand about this situation. Marokai says the split was for competition... unless he's running. Then we should all support him!

The reason I joined UDL at the very start, more: did a lot of recruitment work, was this: I wanted to help to create something new in Atlasia. But I didn't wanted it to become a sectarian tool for one member wild ambitions in an obscure, after all, GAME, not a tool for Xahar's trollish desires (I bet his three points are merely "bgwah is bad, bgwah must be stopped, bgwah is a devil").

Luckily Marokai soon will land in Atlasian history trashcan, and UDL, with so many great people inside, can be a force we can both cooperate around common values, or compete FOR THE FUN OF A GAME. Without all this BS, you, Marokai, are providing so willingly.

Yeah, I would like to add that I too like most people in the UDL. I think it's really unfortunate that Marokai has made it so difficult for our two parties to work together.
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« Reply #46 on: February 06, 2011, 07:26:53 pm »
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I posted snippets about two private conversations when people were full of BS and I couldn't take it anymore. I'm not going to stand for people to outright lie in public like that or try to pretend they feel a way they clearly don't. You people treated Kalwejt like crap behind his back, but now you're all acting like he's 'back home' or some other nonsense. It's absurd.

Hah. Is posting private convos really a game you want to play, Marokai? Because you will lose.

I can't think of anything embarassing I wouldn't want let out to the public at this point. I've said before and I'll say it again: No one needs to get permission from me to post anything I've said to them in private. My comments are an open book and I'm honest about them.

And the only thing I've PMed that I'm embarassed about is when I was PPT and I sent out messages to Senators titled "Supafly PPT Marokai givin' you a pimpin' message." I don't know what had gotten into me that day.
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« Reply #47 on: February 06, 2011, 07:45:09 pm »
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Oh, since Marokai just gave us premission to post private stuff like this...

Here's his public statement.

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Magma71rs (4:56:21 PM): Lief also would've been the more sensible choice considering the fact that he'll be in the senate for more than another month and ahalf.

I'm so petty.

And reality:

You really shouldn't have voted for Snowguy. You're basically handing him campaign advertisements, now.

Great deal of hipocrisy, as we can see. Basically this.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2011, 07:48:55 pm by Happy B-Day to Louis Lepke! »Logged
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« Reply #48 on: February 06, 2011, 07:59:53 pm »
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I don't see anything wrong with what I said. Like I mentioned before, I didn't say anything until the race was over and done with. The only thing I take issue with is people accusing me of trying to stop Snowguy from becoming PPT, which is a lie, since I didn't comment until after it was settled. "Trying to stop Snowguy from being PPT" implies I tried to derail it during the process, which, as evidenced here and elsewhere, I didn't do.

The only thing I did there is openly say what any other candidate would've been thinking, in that instance.
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« Reply #49 on: February 07, 2011, 12:06:18 am »
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NCY sycophanticly defends Tmth over his errors,


uh, just what the hell are you referring to here?
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He's BACK!!! His Time Has Come Once Again! Now We're All Gonna Die! No One is Safe From His Wrath!



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