Please shut up about LBJ

[The Man From G.O.P.]

Yeah lincoln was no great shakes and kodratos tell us your dirty policican stories about bush please

[dazzleman]

Nym tell me why you like him, if its for his social programs fine, but thats just way too soft for me

Civil Rights programs (Civil Rights Act, Voting Rights Act, etc.) and the Great Society, mainly. I disagreed with his Vietnam policy looking at it in retrospect, but at the time it seemed sensible, given the (mis)information that he had.

The economy was pretty good while LBJ is in office, and was done without running up a massive debt.

I second Kodratos's opinion about caring about the disadvantaged.

Many liberals can't forgive LBJ for Vietnam, and overlook his accomplishments in the area of Civil Rights.  Like the current president, he was the victim of regional prejudice from coastal elites who think they are superior to everybody else.

I do think, however, that by taking the wrong approach to the war on poverty, LBJ squandered a rare chance to make serious progress against poverty and the disadvantaged state of minorities, particularly blacks.

Even on civil rights, LBJ followed up his necessary and good initiatives with more dubious proposals that have helped to cement a mentality of victimization, and lack of personal responsibility, among blacks and many others.  He was not alone in this, but he was part of the problem.

[A18]

He's the worst president we've ever had. At least FDR won his war.

No, Lincoln takes the cake for worst ever.

I don't like the guy, but he's another president who at least won his war.

[The Man From G.O.P.]

yeah..... shame he did

Look away!

[Kodratos]

Yeah lincoln was no great shakes and kodratos tell us your dirty policican stories about bush please

Not him, but Rove. In SC the Bush campaign had staffers call up people and tell them all sorts of lies about McCain. Bush frequently appeared with men who denounced McCain as being a traitor to the troops(sound familiar?).

Senior constantly lied about Dole's record, and we all know the Tank/Willie Horton mess.

[Kodratos]

yeah..... shame he did

Look away!

No, not a shame. Slavery was a shame.

[The Man From G.O.P.]

Yes it was, but only an idiot thinks thats what the civil war was about (oh dear here we go, states rights ima need ur help)

[Kodratos]

Yes it was, but only an idiot thinks thats what the civil war was about (oh dear here we go, states rights ima need ur help)

Yeah it was about state's rights. A state's right to own slaves!

[??????????]

Yes it was, but only an idiot thinks thats what the civil war was about (oh dear here we go, states rights ima need ur help)

Go to the History section of the board, start a Lincoln thread and discuss it there.

[??????????]

Yes it was, but only an idiot thinks thats what the civil war was about (oh dear here we go, states rights ima need ur help)

Yeah it was about state's rights. A state's right to own slaves!

Which of course, like abortion was legal at the time and the federal government had no business butting in.

[The Man From G.O.P.]

well do the lincoln thread if kodratos wishes to challenge the issue

[Kodratos]

well do the lincoln thread if kodratos wishes to challenge the issue

There is nothing to challenge. A bunch of backwards redneck traitors decided that they had a right to own as many ns as they wanted, and they decided to pull a Benedict Arnold. Then Lincoln had to go down south and kick a little hillbilly ass. End of story.

[A18]

The fact that a bunch of kooks tried to secede from the union just because he wouldn't allow the expansion of slavery into the territories, and because he opposed the ridiculous ruling making slavery legal throughout the entire United States, is a shame. The war is a shame. The outcome is not.

Lincoln wouldn't have touched slavery in the south had they not tore the country in half. But they were so filled with hate that they had to have their sick institution everywhere.

So they seceded, for no reason but bitterness towards the north, having nothing to gain from disunion.

I'm for states' rights. But that includes the northern states' rights.

[dazzleman]

Yes it was, but only an idiot thinks thats what the civil war was about (oh dear here we go, states rights ima need ur help)

Yeah it was about state's rights. A state's right to own slaves!

Which of course, like abortion was legal at the time and the federal government had no business butting in.

You don't see a conflict between the ideals in the constitution and the existence of slavery?  Slavery had to go.  I don't buy the states rights argument in this case.

People who believe in abortion today make the same argument as slaveholders did before the civil war, but that doesn't make the argument correct.

[The Man From G.O.P.]

OHHHHH really

im afraid it was the southerners who did the arse kicking, (noting a population of only 9 million and no industry)
 
So how do you figure that kodratos?

In a war of attrition like that only those with industrial might i.e. not the south have a chance and they lasted for over 4 years

so once again, how do you figure that

by the way im a connecticut native and a yankee at that so dont backwater redneck bs in ur answer

[dazzleman]

The fact that a bunch of kooks tried to secede from the union just because he wouldn't allow the expansion of slavery into the territories, and because he opposed the ridiculous ruling making slavery legal throughout the entire United States, is a shame. The war is a shame. The outcome is not.

Lincoln wouldn't have touched slavery in the south had they not tore the country in half. But they were so filled with hate that they had to have their sick institution everywhere.

So they seceded, for no reason but bitterness towards the north, having nothing to gain from disunion.

I'm for states' rights. But that includes the northern states' rights.

well said

[The Man From G.O.P.]

The CSA minus south carolina, came into being soley that lincoln called for volunteers to invade his OWN country, and put down a revolt in the south that ONLY existed in S. Carolina at that time, that announcement scared the rest of the southers legislatures into taking just action to defend themselves

[Kodratos]

OHHHHH really

im afraid it was the southerners who did the arse kicking, (noting a population of only 9 million and no industry)
 
So how do you figure that kodratos?

In a war of attrition like that only those with industrial might i.e. not the south have a chance and they lasted for over 4 years

so once again, how do you figure that

by the way im a connecticut native and a yankee at that so dont backwater redneck bs in ur answer

You are a redneck, and a pretty moronic one, if you believe in slavery. Yes, let's not kid ourselves, THE CIVIL WAR WAS ABOUT SLAVERY.

No, the Southerners may have done the ass-kicking during the first year of the war, but after Gettysburg they never again won a major battle. That's three years without winning jack sh-t.

[Kodratos]

The fact that a bunch of kooks tried to secede from the union just because he wouldn't allow the expansion of slavery into the territories, and because he opposed the ridiculous ruling making slavery legal throughout the entire United States, is a shame. The war is a shame. The outcome is not.

Lincoln wouldn't have touched slavery in the south had they not tore the country in half. But they were so filled with hate that they had to have their sick institution everywhere.

So they seceded, for no reason but bitterness towards the north, having nothing to gain from disunion.

I'm for states' rights. But that includes the northern states' rights.

Philip, I'm impressed.

[The Man From G.O.P.]

Wow you have no clue Go to a civil war book and kindly look up Cold Harbour and Chickamauga for me will you?
 Those amongst others....

States please feel free to chime in at any time

[Kodratos]

Wow you have no clue Go to a civil war book and kindly look up Cold Harbour and Chickamauga for me will you?
 Those amongst others....

States please feel free to chime in at any time

I'm sorry, you are right the south won cold harbor. That was thier final victory and only major one after gettysburg. And Grant accomplished his mission by trapping Lee's army, so it can't even really be called a "victory"

[The Man From G.O.P.]

..................... ok seriously, look up chickamauga,
 like i said, that battle almost
won the west for the
confederacy, need i site that after the battle
longstreets corps was able to return to
Virginia because of the sudden drop in Union prescence
in W. Tennessee

[patrick1]

Wow you have no clue Go to a civil war book and kindly look up Cold Harbour and Chickamauga for me will you?
 Those amongst others....

States please feel free to chime in at any time

The north won Cold Harbor!!!!! And Chickamauga is hardly a major battle. You have no idea what you're talking about do you? You need to quit while you're behind.

Won is hardly a term I would use for the North at Cold Harbor.  It was a turkey shoot.  Maybe the North won strategicaly but... Chickamauga delayed the Union advance towrd Atlanta

[Kodratos]

The west couldn't have been won by the south after Vicksburg. And the confederatessuffered more casualties in the battle of chickamauga than the north, so that also can't be called a victory.

[Kodratos]

Most of these battles couldn't be described as wins for either side. If one side lost in one way, the other lost in another.