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Author Topic: If Paul Ryan is Romney's VP...  (Read 1730 times)
Snowstalker
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« on: April 06, 2012, 07:20:58 pm »
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I expect Obama's biggest trends to be with olds (youngs will trend R by default since he probably can't replicate 2008's excitement). If Romney picks Ryan as has been rumored, attack ads in Florida will be

"Paul Ryan authored the plan that would effectively end Medicare as we know it".

And Obama wins Florida. Can he win the olds as Clinton did?
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« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2012, 07:23:15 pm »
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The Obama campaign has already made it pretty clear that they will treat Ryan as Romney's de facto running mate.
If Mittens obliges to make their jobs even easier then more power to him.
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« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2012, 08:09:40 pm »
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The Obama campaign has already made it pretty clear that they will treat Ryan as Romney's de facto running mate.
If Mittens obliges to make their jobs even easier then more power to him.

I tried to tell y'all this a year ago. Zilcho replies.  I felt lonelier than Newt Gingrich did after he bashed Ryan.

Why only 120-something views?  Most of them me checking in on her?  This was a big turning point.  Ryan=Palin of 2012.

Not that Ryan exudes ignorance, but his electoral effect will be similar even if he's not on the ballot.
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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2012, 08:24:51 pm »

The Obama campaign has already made it pretty clear that they will treat Ryan as Romney's de facto running mate.

Most people don't know who Ryan is though (though of course that will change if Romney picks him as his running mate, which is why he won't be Romney's running mate).  This isn't 1996, where Gingrich was the face of the opposition, and was quite unpopular, and you had an endless stream of Clinton ads decrying "The Dole-Gingrich agenda".

Obama will certainly try to tar Romney with the Ryan budget, even if Ryan himself isn't widely known.  Which is why Romney won't pick him as his running mate, and he'll make some noises along the lines of "I applaud Rep. Ryan for making the tough choices, which the White House hasn't made, but I'll present a budget next year that will result in similar deficit savings with somewhat different cuts...", and then he won't specify those cuts until after the election.
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« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2012, 08:45:16 pm »
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The Obama campaign has already made it pretty clear that they will treat Ryan as Romney's de facto running mate.

Most people don't know who Ryan is though (though of course that will change if Romney picks him as his running mate, which is why he won't be Romney's running mate).  This isn't 1996, where Gingrich was the face of the opposition, and was quite unpopular, and you had an endless stream of Clinton ads decrying "The Dole-Gingrich agenda".

Obama will certainly try to tar Romney with the Ryan budget, even if Ryan himself isn't widely known.  Which is why Romney won't pick him as his running mate, and he'll make some noises along the lines of "I applaud Rep. Ryan for making the tough choices, which the White House hasn't made, but I'll present a budget next year that will result in similar deficit savings with somewhat different cuts...", and then he won't specify those cuts until after the election.


Agree with all this including the reasoning why Romney won't seriously consider Ryan for running mate.  George Will's imploring him to do so probably clinches that it won't happen because when was he last listened to?  That said, the Ryan budget itself avoids specifics so it's a bit nonsensically abstract for Romney to say he'll make different, unspecified cuts than Ryan's unspecified cuts.  I agree he'll still attempt this argument, but I think it's going to be awkward.  Plus, Romney and Ryan do now share the same very politically risky Medicare proposal.
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« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2012, 08:48:46 pm »
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Obama will certainly try to tar Romney with the Ryan budget, even if Ryan himself isn't widely known.  Which is why Romney won't pick him as his running mate, and he'll make some noises along the lines of "I applaud Rep. Ryan for making the tough choices, which the White House hasn't made, but I'll present a budget next year that will result in similar deficit savings with somewhat different cuts...", and then he won't specify those cuts until after the election.

Fixed.
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« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2012, 10:46:05 pm »
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He'll probably win it regardless.
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« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2012, 09:05:51 am »
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If Romney picks Ryan as has been rumored, attack ads in Florida will be

"Paul Ryan authored the plan that would effectively end Medicare as we know it".

And Obama wins Florida.
So,
if the status quo continues = medicare ends
if Obamacare takes effect = medicare ends
if Paul Ryan's budget passes = medicare survives

Lying is a tougher sell than the truth in my opinion.
Obama has major problems in Florida.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2012, 09:08:56 am by AmericanNation »Logged

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« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2012, 09:09:39 am »

He is probably going to win it anyways. Not like it would ever happen anyways. Ryan would be an idiot to take a chance to be a losing VP candidate and give up what he has now.
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« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2012, 10:03:22 am »
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He is probably going to win it anyways. Not like it would ever happen anyways. Ryan would be an idiot to take a chance to be a losing VP candidate and give up what he has now.

I don't understand your 1st sentence.  Ryan doesn't have to give up his congressional seat (remember Lieberman ran for reelection and VP) and VP nomination would make him a national leader not just a republican leader.  I know losing VP has a history of problems, but FDR didn't.  It is a real possibility because it is the only way to get him out of the box he's in... He couldn't run for Governor or Senator because it would have been a step down from budget chairman.  Only options for him are VP or speaker.  Hard to run from current position next time, even if he is the brains of the party.  Maybe if he chaired Ways and means he'd have a prestigious enough resume, but it is hard to become president from a congressional seat.  Easier being the next guy in line in the GOP or a sitting Vice President.             
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« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2012, 12:31:59 pm »
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He is probably going to win it anyways. Not like it would ever happen anyways. Ryan would be an idiot to take a chance to be a losing VP candidate and give up what he has now.

I don't understand your 1st sentence.  Ryan doesn't have to give up his congressional seat (remember Lieberman ran for reelection and VP) and VP nomination would make him a national leader not just a republican leader.  I know losing VP has a history of problems, but FDR didn't.  It is a real possibility because it is the only way to get him out of the box he's in... He couldn't run for Governor or Senator because it would have been a step down from budget chairman.  Only options for him are VP or speaker.  Hard to run from current position next time, even if he is the brains of the party.  Maybe if he chaired Ways and means he'd have a prestigious enough resume, but it is hard to become president from a congressional seat.  Easier being the next guy in line in the GOP or a sitting Vice President.             

Not all states allow someone to run for two offices simultaneously.  I know you can't in South Carolina.  I don't know what the law is like in Wisconsin.
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« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2012, 12:39:09 pm »
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He is probably going to win it anyways. Not like it would ever happen anyways. Ryan would be an idiot to take a chance to be a losing VP candidate and give up what he has now.

I don't understand your 1st sentence.  Ryan doesn't have to give up his congressional seat (remember Lieberman ran for reelection and VP) and VP nomination would make him a national leader not just a republican leader.  I know losing VP has a history of problems, but FDR didn't.  It is a real possibility because it is the only way to get him out of the box he's in... He couldn't run for Governor or Senator because it would have been a step down from budget chairman.  Only options for him are VP or speaker.  Hard to run from current position next time, even if he is the brains of the party.  Maybe if he chaired Ways and means he'd have a prestigious enough resume, but it is hard to become president from a congressional seat.  Easier being the next guy in line in the GOP or a sitting Vice President.             

Not all states allow someone to run for two offices simultaneously.  I know you can't in South Carolina.  I don't know what the law is like in Wisconsin.

IIRC they do have their own LBJ law.

On the OP: Depends how well both sides play defense and offense of their respective positions. Given Romney and Ryan's close political and personal relationship they'll be ticket mates either de facto or de jure anyways, which both they and the President have already accepted.
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« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2012, 04:18:14 pm »

To clarify my earlier comment, if Ryan is *not* Romney's running mate, then Obama will still try to tar Romney with the Ryan budget, but he'll call it "The Republican Budget" or some such thing, since, as I said before, most people don't actually know who Ryan is.
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« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2012, 11:28:08 am »
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Not all states allow someone to run for two offices simultaneously.  I know you can't in South Carolina.  I don't know what the law is like in Wisconsin.

Ryan’s office confirmed that according to Wisconsin law, Ryan can run on the GOP national ticket and for re-election to his House seat. (They made sure to say they checked, because  many people had asked.)

This case is a federal office and a state office, not two state offices so, I see that as a lot less problematic and a lot of states have laws addressing that distinction.  I've herd them called "LBJ" laws because he apparently 'had' Texas change it's law so he could run for Senate and VP.           
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« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2012, 03:58:59 pm »
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http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/295206/emperor-has-no-plan-editors

When you hear Obama making crap up about Ryan's plan (and than repeating the same speech verbatim) don't you ask yourself "where is Obama's plan?"  Why hasn't the democrat senate passed a budget?  Why don't you do your job Mr. President before you criticize Mr. Ryan for doing his job? 
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« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2012, 04:26:38 pm »
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http://www.redstate.com/erick/2012/04/04/maybe-paul-ryan-should-have-called-it-a-trojan-condom-budget/

As an added bonus, it was more than a bit odd to hear Barack Obama call Paul Ryan a social darwinist considering Barack Obama remains the only member of the Illinois State Senate to speak in favor of infanticide from the floor. 
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« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2012, 04:49:52 pm »
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Can someone please make this joker stop spamming every thread?
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« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2012, 05:44:30 pm »
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If Romney picks Ryan as has been rumored, attack ads in Florida will be

"Paul Ryan authored the plan that would effectively end Medicare as we know it".

And Obama wins Florida.
So,
if the status quo continues = medicare ends
if Obamacare takes effect = medicare ends
if Paul Ryan's budget passes = medicare survives

Lying is a tougher sell than the truth in my opinion.
Obama has major problems in Florida.

If President Obama has trouble in Florida it will be because Governor Rick Scott is going to do everything possible to stop every Democratic vote and get out every possible Republican vote even if those are fabricated. Remember -- if President Obama is defeated in the general election the Republicans will have no possibility of having Attorney-General Eric Holder investigating the Governor. Governor Scott can then practically give Florida's public sector away to about any private interest who pays to play. A Romney administration is unlikely to investigate sordid deals that the Governor would do.

.........

Ryan's plan with Medicare is to privatize it at terms that turn a profit, which implies added costs to those now in it without any improvement in service or greater solidity of its finances. In return for giving up a well-running public system recipients get vouchers whose value is to be determined by private insurance companies who then charge what they deem appropriate.

The GOP today -- corruption and exploitation.   

   
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« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2012, 05:51:11 pm »
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If Romney picks Ryan as has been rumored, attack ads in Florida will be

"Paul Ryan authored the plan that would effectively end Medicare as we know it".

And Obama wins Florida.
So,
if the status quo continues = medicare ends
if Obamacare takes effect = medicare ends
if Paul Ryan's budget passes = medicare survives

Lying is a tougher sell than the truth in my opinion.
Obama has major problems in Florida.

If President Obama has trouble in Florida it will be because Governor Rick Scott is going to do everything possible to stop every Democratic vote and get out every possible Republican vote even if those are fabricated. Remember -- if President Obama is defeated in the general election the Republicans will have no possibility of having Attorney-General Eric Holder investigating the Governor. Governor Scott can then practically give Florida's public sector away to about any private interest who pays to play. A Romney administration is unlikely to investigate sordid deals that the Governor would do.

.........

Ryan's plan with Medicare is to privatize it at terms that turn a profit, which implies added costs to those now in it without any improvement in service or greater solidity of its finances. In return for giving up a well-running public system recipients get vouchers whose value is to be determined by private insurance companies who then charge what they deem appropriate.

The GOP today -- corruption and exploitation.   

   

LOL, the DNC are the kings are voter fraud. Any major city with a large number of minorities and you can bet a decent percentage of the democratic votes are fabricated, not to mention the Democratic machine that assembles people who have no idea what the issues are to the polls. The DNC doesn't want fair and honest voting, which is why they oppose voter ID laws.
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AmericanNation
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« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2012, 07:01:54 pm »
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How is he going to simultaneously suppress the vote and turn it out? ??  How is a republican governor going to fabricate votes? ??  the Tallahassee-cook county machine? 

I'm getting sick of this "ending as we know it" crap.  A slight change for the better isn't "ending as we know it."  Try not to lie or be hugely misleading when you repeat something a million times. 

Medicare works pretty well because it leaches off of the rest of the system by stiffing doctors 30% of the bill which is then picked up via higher costs for everyone else.  Guess what happens when Obamacare throws a huge wrench in that racket.  "Medicare ends as we know it."  O, and stealing 500 billion from medicare probably doesn't help sustain it either.  Thanks Obama. 
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« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2012, 07:14:03 pm »
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Fraudulent signatures on: Primary petitions, Absentee ballots, Doctors’ orders, and recall petitions   
 are becoming the signature of desperate Democrats who play the electoral game by one set of rules: By Any Means Necessary.
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« Reply #21 on: April 14, 2012, 09:22:53 am »
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If Romney picks Ryan as has been rumored, attack ads in Florida will be

"Paul Ryan authored the plan that would effectively end Medicare as we know it".

And Obama wins Florida.
So,
if the status quo continues = medicare ends
if Obamacare takes effect = medicare ends
if Paul Ryan's budget passes = medicare survives

Lying is a tougher sell than the truth in my opinion.
Obama has major problems in Florida.

If President Obama has trouble in Florida it will be because Governor Rick Scott is going to do everything possible to stop every Democratic vote and get out every possible Republican vote even if those are fabricated. Remember -- if President Obama is defeated in the general election the Republicans will have no possibility of having Attorney-General Eric Holder investigating the Governor. Governor Scott can then practically give Florida's public sector away to about any private interest who pays to play. A Romney administration is unlikely to investigate sordid deals that the Governor would do.

.........

Ryan's plan with Medicare is to privatize it at terms that turn a profit, which implies added costs to those now in it without any improvement in service or greater solidity of its finances. In return for giving up a well-running public system recipients get vouchers whose value is to be determined by private insurance companies who then charge what they deem appropriate.

The GOP today -- corruption and exploitation.   

   

LOL, the DNC are the kings are voter fraud. Any major city with a large number of minorities and you can bet a decent percentage of the democratic votes are fabricated, not to mention the Democratic machine that assembles people who have no idea what the issues are to the polls. The DNC doesn't want fair and honest voting, which is why they oppose voter ID laws.

To the Republicans, "fair and honest voting" means voting in which only those voters that Republicans think "fair and honest" -- white Anglo property owners -- vote. Voter ID laws are intended to ensure that voting becomes more difficult and time-consuming, creating longer lines especially in places that get inadequate voting devices. If the signature does not match one needs to show that one is who one claims to be. There may be multiple applications for voter registration but one only gets one.

You imply through juxtaposition that minorities 'have no idea of what the issues are'. Being part of a minority and getting a raw deal from the economic system, I would think, would make one more aware than usual 'what the issues are'. Such people know well that "All for the Few" economics has noting to offer them.


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AmericanNation
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« Reply #22 on: April 15, 2012, 08:06:28 am »
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To the Republicans, "fair and honest voting" means voting in which only those voters that Republicans think "fair and honest" -- white Anglo property owners -- vote. Voter ID laws are intended to ensure that voting becomes more difficult and time-consuming, creating longer lines especially in places that get inadequate voting devices. If the signature does not match one needs to show that one is who one claims to be. There may be multiple applications for voter registration but one only gets one.

You imply through juxtaposition that minorities 'have no idea of what the issues are'. Being part of a minority and getting a raw deal from the economic system, I would think, would make one more aware than usual 'what the issues are'. Such people know well that "All for the Few" economics has noting to offer them.
How about:
1) the person who votes IS the registered voter they claim to be.   
2) one person one vote.
3) the people not allowed to vote by law, aren't allowed to.
Is that to much to ask?... Of course not. 
Are those three objectives 'accomplished' by voter ID laws?... Yes
Is this an actual appropriate use of government?... Yes
Is showing an ID a burden?... No
Is the integrity of elections important?...yes
Does voter fraud occur?...yes
Is voter fraud disenfranchising non-fraudulent votes?...yes

It looks really bad when democrats oppose a common sense, 80% approval, supreme court approved law.  Stop ginning up class warfare and race wars over nothing.       
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« Reply #23 on: April 15, 2012, 04:03:03 pm »

OK, this thread seems to have gotten sidetracked onto voting fraud.  If you guys want to have a debate about that, start another thread on the appropriate board.
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