Why did McGovern lose so badly?

[So the Heroes Fall]

give it a break you idiots. The Democratic party back then was nothing like the party of today. agcat even admitted once that ever since the civil rights act white racists have voted Republican. Yes, they all switched. Otherwise the Democrats wouldn't be clobbered in the Deep South anymore. And Byrd is just one person who renounced his membership long ago and has better ratings from the NAACP than any Republican.

These idiotic arguments are pointless. What are you trying to say, that today's Democratic party wants to reinstate slavery? That we force blacks to vote for us? The fact is, no one forces blacks to do anything, they choose to vote Democratic, and yet idiots claim that makes us racist. I think telling blacks how they SHOULD vote is more racist than them voting for your party.

[So the Heroes Fall]

Also hilariously, StatesRights named a pro-slavery racist as his most comparable politician and called Lincoln a fascist.

[??????????]

Also hilariously, StatesRights named a pro-slavery racist as his most comparable politician and called Lincoln a fascist.

Lincoln was a facist, commie. LBJ was a great humanitarian towards the black man, huh? Welfare is a form of economic slavery! And the Democrats insist on public assitance. The elitist plantation mentality still exists in the Democratic party.

[PBrunsel]

Let's not forget the Democrats opposed the Emancipation Proclamation, the 13th Ammendment, the Freedmen's Bureau, and the Force Act of 1890.

In 1868, Democrat Horatio Seymoure's campaign slogan was, "This is a white man's government, let white men rule it."

[So the Heroes Fall]

LBJ was a worthless scumbag, but not for any racial reasons.

[??????????]

LBJ was a worthless scumbag, but not for any racial reasons.

He was one of the most vile racists (next to Al Gore Sr.) during the 1960s.

[ilikeverin]

Let's not forget the Democrats opposed the Emancipation Proclamation, the 13th Ammendment, the Freedmen's Bureau, and the Force Act of 1890.

In 1868, Democrat Horatio Seymoure's campaign slogan was, "This is a white man's government, let white men rule it."

I would've been a Republican back then

[Bandit3 the Worker]

He was one of the most vile racists (next to Al Gore Sr.) during the 1960s.

I'd hate to be the one to break this to you, but Al Gore Sr. supported civil rights when few other senators did.

At the same time, Strom Thurmond opposed civil rights.

[Nym90]

And I suppose Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act as a cover for his racism....

[muon2]

1972 was a referendum on Nixon's first term. He was able to reduce the force in Vietnam from over 500,000 to less than 100,000. The anti-war protests of 1969 and 1970 were greatly diminished by 1972. He had the spectacular opening of relations with China and two major arms treaties with the Soviets (SALT and ABM).

At home his program was extremely aggressive. He supported the Equal Rights Amendment, all-volunteer army, and Social Security tied to inflation. He created the Environmental Protection Agency, federal revenue sharing with the states, and the first campaign finance laws.

To attack inflation, he instituted wage and price controls  for three months, then gradually lifted them going into 1972 and the economy took off. He abandoned the gold standard which boosted exports considerably.

The irony is that he would have won easily without the illegal activity and suspect campaign organization.

[??????????]

He was one of the most vile racists (next to Al Gore Sr.) during the 1960s.

I'd hate to be the one to break this to you, but Al Gore Sr. supported civil rights when few other senators did.

At the same time, Strom Thurmond opposed civil rights.

From most old timers I know from Tennesee who either knew him or his politics he was a racist. LBJ was a well known racist and tried to cover his tracks by signing the Civil Rights act. A largely Republican supported act. Bob Dole was one of the main leaders on that act.

[Sibboleth]

He was one of the most vile racists (next to Al Gore Sr.) during the 1960s.

I'd hate to be the one to break this to you, but Al Gore Sr. supported civil rights when few other senators did.

And as a result, was defeated in 1970.

[KEmperor]

Let's not forget the Democrats opposed the Emancipation Proclamation, the 13th Ammendment, the Freedmen's Bureau, and the Force Act of 1890.

In 1868, Democrat Horatio Seymoure's campaign slogan was, "This is a white man's government, let white men rule it."

I would've been a Republican back then

You would have supported the party of Big Business?  Because thats the other side of the 1800's Republican party you know.

[So the Heroes Fall]

What about Teddy Roosevelt? He was probably the most anti-corporate President we've ever had.

[KEmperor]

He was a Republican foreign policy wise, and if you notice he went against the Republicans in 1912 when he ran as a Progressive.

[migrendel]

Can we all just agree that there is a significant difference between what the political parties might have stood historically and what they stand for today? I also scarcely equate public assistance with slavery, StatesRights, considering that people aren't kidnapped, taken across the high seas from their native land, sold at auction, and then become welfare recipients.

[??????????]

Can we all just agree that there is a significant difference between what the political parties might have stood historically and what they stand for today? I also scarcely equate public assistance with slavery, StatesRights, considering that people aren't kidnapped, taken across the high seas from their native land, sold at auction, and then become welfare recipients.

Welfare holds people back from the true potential. Most people will take the freebie over having to go out and work for it themselves.

[Storebought]

Looking at a few of those 1972 ads, I really don't see why McGovern lost as badly as he did, either. Nixon was a creepy as ever, and McGovern did clothe his Marxism, a la Woody Guthrie, with country folkishness.

So far as I can tell, McGovern lost as badly as he did because he embodied some sort of subconscious night terror that all Americans immediately recognized and instinctively fled.

McGovern reminded Americans too much of 1968, the year America almost committed suicide.

[acsenray]

Welfare holds people back from the true potential. Most people will take the freebie over having to go out and work for it themselves.

Disagreeing with policy on policy grounds is one thing. So you don't like welfare ... It's still more than ridiculous to equate it to slavery or segregation or racism. (For one thing, it has nothing to do with race.)

[??????????]

Welfare holds people back from the true potential. Most people will take the freebie over having to go out and work for it themselves.

Disagreeing with policy on policy grounds is one thing. So you don't like welfare ... It's still more than ridiculous to equate it to slavery or segregation or racism. (For one thing, it has nothing to do with race.)

Welfare absolutely DOES have a lot to do with race. Dependence on the government is equivalent to slavery in the same way as the slaves were dependent on the plantation master. What party is the party of the free check handout? If you keep people dependent on you you can easily subvert them to your way of thinking.

[Nym90]

It's true that the Civil Rights Act had more Democratic opposition than it did Republican opposition, but that's because the South was still almost entirely Democratic. Northern Democrats voted almost unanimously for it.

Regardless of whether Gore or Johnson may have been closet racists (nothing but anecdotal evidence to support that...I'd like to see quotes from prominent people), the facts are that they both did a great deal to advance the cause of civil rights, and led the fight for them throughout their careers.

In 1956, Al Gore Sr. was one of only two Southern senators who refused to sign the racist Southern Manifesto.

Also, Gore...

Voted against the Poll Tax of 1942
Voted for Civil Rights Act of 1957
Nominated 2 young black students from Memphis for appointment to US Air Force Academy - risky in Tennessee in 1957
Voted for 1965 Voters Rights Act
Voted for 1968 Fair Housing Act

Al Gore Sr. apologized for his 1964 vote against the Civil Rights Act and called it a big mistake. He was concerned that it went too far too fast and would be used to cut off funding of schools who appeared to be in violation.

[migrendel]

Your post didn't demonstrate a connection to race. It analogized a slave economy to welfare dependency.

[acsenray]

Welfare absolutely DOES have a lot to do with race. Dependence on the government is equivalent to slavery in the same way as the slaves were dependent on the plantation master. What party is the party of the free check handout? If you keep people dependent on you you can easily subvert them to your way of thinking.

Again, you're talking in slogans and propaganda.

The idea that black people are being tricked into voting against their own interests is pure silliness. They vote for whom they want to vote for. Furthermore, people on welfare don't vote. The black people who are voting for Democrats are the ones with jobs.

If your point is that the Democratic party is essentially buying the votes of African-Americans with welfare, well, that really has nothing to do with race. Political parties have been paying off their loyal voters since the beginning. Take a look at who's benefitting most from the Republican tax cuts.

Second, far, far, far more white people benefit from welfare than blacks do. So, where's the race connection there? The idea that welfare is a race issue is errant nonsense. The idea that only blacks are poor or that only blacks need help or that only blacks are willing to accept help is, in itself, racist. Some people need help and are willing to accept it. Liberal are willing to offer that help through government programs.

Third, the idea that those who support policies that benefit the underprivileged are doing so in order to get some kind of voodoo mastery over them is nothing more than slander. Liberal support for public benefits comes from the same instinct that anyone who wants to help someone else in need. The liberal position is that if a problem is widespread, then the people as a whole (that is, the government) should work together to help solve the problem. You might disagree with this method of dealing with problems, but your sloganeering and propaganda and slander of the motives of the people who disagree with you is not fitting in a great republic.

Your whole political position seems to be that people who disagree with you are either stupid or evil. I'd suggest you rethink that notion. Reasonable people may disagree on policy.

[??????????]

Welfare absolutely DOES have a lot to do with race. Dependence on the government is equivalent to slavery in the same way as the slaves were dependent on the plantation master. What party is the party of the free check handout? If you keep people dependent on you you can easily subvert them to your way of thinking.

The idea that black people are being tricked into voting against their own interests is pure silliness. They vote for whom they want to vote for. Furthermore, people on welfare don't vote. The black people who are voting for Democrats are the ones with jobs.

They were tricked down here in the south. In the late 40's they were told that the Democratic majority state governments would cut off their benefits if they did not ditch the GOP. Basically they baited black republicans into switching parties. I am currently reading a book written in 1949 on this exact subject. Saying people on welfare don't vote is a broad generalization and is not 100% true. People are fooled into believing that a welfare state will somehow help them advance when in fact it is holding those on it back from their full potential.

If your point is that the Democratic party is essentially buying the votes of African-Americans with welfare, well, that really has nothing to do with race. Political parties have been paying off their loyal voters since the beginning. Take a look at who's benefitting most from the Republican tax cuts.

I can hear it coming, "The tax cuts only benefit the rich". This is the biggest lie that the Democrats like to put out. I HAVE in fact benefited from the cuts. But I believe the more you pay in the more you should get back. Fair is fair. The rich keep this economy going whether we can accept that fact or not. Buying their votes has everything to do with race. If you can win their hearts and minds with free money they are going to be very hard to sway them enough to see how much it is actually hurting them.

Second, far, far, far more white people benefit from welfare than blacks do. So, where's the race connection there? The idea that welfare is a race issue is errant nonsense. The idea that only blacks are poor or that only blacks need help or that only blacks are willing to accept help is, in itself, racist. Some people need help and are willing to accept it. Liberal are willing to offer that help through government programs.

Here we go with the accustations of racism. Again, more blacks do benefit from the welfare system because they are the majority of the users. I beg you to show me numbers contrary to that. Maybe it is different down south here but I do not know ANY whites personally who are on welfare. I am not rich I do not make more then 50k a year so don't accuse me of being rich and out of touch. I know many poor blacks that ARE on welfare, they are good people and I have no personal problem with them. But the problem is that check is like a drug. If their is no incentive to get out and look for work then it is so obvious that they would rather just take the check and be done with it. I believe that once you DO find gainful employment a small portion of what you've taken should be paid back to the state.

Third, the idea that those who support policies that benefit the underprivileged are doing so in order to get some kind of voodoo mastery over them is nothing more than slander. Liberal support for public benefits comes from the same instinct that anyone who wants to help someone else in need. The liberal position is that if a problem is widespread, then the people as a whole (that is, the government) should work together to help solve the problem. You might disagree with this method of dealing with problems, but your sloganeering and propaganda and slander of the motives of the people who disagree with you is not fitting in a great republic.

I believe the whole welfare system is dangerous to our freedom and government. That is why I strongly believe in faith based initiatives. Churches and other non-profits should be left in charge (with the states very light supervision) of feeding the truly needy and the states should build schools to train those who are not educated enough to find work or skilled employment.

[acsenray]

Again, it is absolute nonsense to equate the denial of all civil and human rights to a person to offering that person a voluntary public benefit. It's fine if you disagree with social welfare for policy reasons. To equate it with slavery on any level tells more about you than it does about the reality of public policy.

They were tricked down here in the south. In the late 40's they were told that the Democratic majority state governments would cut off their benefits if they did not ditch the GOP.

In the late 40s? How many of these voters are still alive? The whites who vote Republican now are the ones who controlled the Democratic party in the south back then. Why were they free to switch parties when they wanted to but the blacks weren't?

Saying people on welfare don't vote is a broad generalization and is not 100% true.

It doesn't have to be 100 percent true. It's true enough to make hash of your argument.

People are fooled into believing that a welfare state will somehow help them advance when in fact it is holding those on it back from their full potential.

No, people who support social welfare believe that the people acting together (= the government) should help people in need.

In any case, there are now strict limits on welfare. Nobody can live their lives on welfare any more.

I can hear it coming, "The tax cuts only benefit the rich". This is the biggest lie that the Democrats like to put out. I HAVE in fact benefited from the cuts. But I believe the more you pay in the more you should get back. Fair is fair. The rich keep this economy going whether we can accept that fact or not. Buying their votes has everything to do with race. If you can win their hearts and minds with free money they are going to be very hard to sway them enough to see how much it is actually hurting them.

You're not making any sense.

Again, more blacks do benefit from the welfare system because they are the majority of the users.

Is that right? The last figure I saw was that 50 percent of welfare beneficiaries were white and only about 30 percent or so were black. How does that constitute a majority?

I do not know ANY whites personally who are on welfare.

Fallacy of argument by anecdote. I lived for three years in a rural area where there were lots of whites on welfare. Does that mean I should conclude that there are no blacks on welfare? The basic fact is that there are a lot more poor whites in this country than poor blacks and that there are a lot more whites on welfare than blacks. That's a fact.

I believe the whole welfare system is dangerous to our freedom and government.

Fine, that's what you believe. There are plenty of people who disagree with you. That doesn't mean that those who do are stupid, evil, anti-democratic, anti-freedom, anti-American, or whatever. In a democracy, you vote and then the winners compromise on a policy solution. So nobody gets exactly what they believe. That's the way grownups behave.

Churches and other non-profits should be left in charge (with the states very light supervision) of feeding the truly needy

And I believe that no religious group should be empowered to act on behalf of the people as a whole. That's what government is for. That's what I believe. So what names are you going to call me now?