Israel general discussion

[Velasco]

The Knesset is currently debating a law that will allow the creation of segregated township only for Jews. Israeli president Reuven Rivlin sent a letter to the constitutional commission of the Knesset asking members not to vote a law that fosters "discrimination and exclusion in the name of a zionist vision". Rivlin warned the current draft allows without restrictions that every locality can determine the exclusion of Mizrahim, Druze or LGTB people and could be used as a weapon by the enemies of Israel. Minister of Public Security Gilad Erdan reacted saying that the letter is an "interference in the legislative process". Attorney general Avihai Mandelblit says that segregating population is unacceptable. A member of the attorney's office told Haaretz that the draft  i clearly discriminatory and could allow the ban of Jewish people by a given community.

A Bedouin village could decide the future of the Palestinian state. "Only a court order stands between Khan al-Ahmar and the bulldozers. And if it goes, the West Bank will be split in two", says The Guardian.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jul/07/khan-al-ahmar-west-bank-bedouin-village-facing-destruction

Insights?

[Tintrlvr]

The Knesset is currently debating a law that will allow the creation of segregated township only for Jews. Israeli president Reuven Rivlin sent a letter to the constitutional commission of the Knesset asking members not to vote a law that fosters "discrimination and exclusion in the name of a zionist vision". Rivlin warned the current draft allows without restrictions that every locality can determine the exclusion of Mizrahim, Druze or LGTB people and could be used as a weapon by the enemies of Israel. Minister of Public Security Gilad Erdan reacted saying that the letter is an "interference in the legislative process". Attorney general Avihai Mandelblit says that segregating population is unacceptable. A member of the attorney's office told Haaretz that the draft  i clearly discriminatory and could allow the ban of Jewish people by a given community.

A Bedouin village could decide the future of the Palestinian state. "Only a court order stands between Khan al-Ahmar and the bulldozers. And if it goes, the West Bank will be split in two", says The Guardian.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jul/07/khan-al-ahmar-west-bank-bedouin-village-facing-destruction

Insights?

Well, if that passes, they’re certainly not trying very hard to counter the Israel-is-an-apartheid-state accusation.

[Velasco]

Do they care at this point?

[America Needs R'hllor]

The Knesset is currently debating a law that will allow the creation of segregated township only for Jews. Israeli president Reuven Rivlin sent a letter to the constitutional commission of the Knesset asking members not to vote a law that fosters "discrimination and exclusion in the name of a zionist vision". Rivlin warned the current draft allows without restrictions that every locality can determine the exclusion of Mizrahim, Druze or LGTB people and could be used as a weapon by the enemies of Israel. Minister of Public Security Gilad Erdan reacted saying that the letter is an "interference in the legislative process". Attorney general Avihai Mandelblit says that segregating population is unacceptable. A member of the attorney's office told Haaretz that the draft  i clearly discriminatory and could allow the ban of Jewish people by a given community.

The Israeli right is racist, deranged, hateful and bigoted. I'm fully willing to admit that by this point.

[EPG]

(the law says you need 1/3 of a party to split, meaning they’ll need more defectors).

What does this mean? Can they quit, join the party and keep the seats? I know these splits were widespread earlier in Israel's history when the parties were often incredibly general and undifferentiated by policy.

If less than 1/3 of the MKs leave the party, they lose their Knesset seats and get replaced by the next people on their old party's list.

Yes, this isn't how it used to be. They passed a law in the last decade to prevent the constant party switching/fracturing.

Thanks. It seems to be a really powerful law for party leaders.

[Intell]

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/rights-groups-demand-israel-stop-arming-neo-nazis-in-the-ukraine-1.6248727

What's this about?

[Velasco]

The Israeli right is racist, deranged, hateful and bigoted. I'm fully willing to admit that by this point.

Is there any hope for Israel, or is the damage irreversible?

[DavidB.]

The new nation-state law is amazing and has made me support the Likud again: they are finally about the action, not just the talk. Very promising steps towards a better Israel.

Looking forward to Miri Regev's cultural loyalty bill too, according to which funding can be cut if subsidized institutions promote anti-Zionism; hopefully this includes universities too. Haaretz' tears seldom tasted this delicious.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

So David, how would you feel if certain towns in the Netherlands prohibited you from living there because despite being a Dutch citizen, you weren't actually Dutch?

[America Needs R'hllor]

If these laws pass I'm probably going to bother much less to defend Israel from apartheid accusations.
In any case, I'm growing increasingly bitter with this government and the fact that the Likud is just getting stronger makes me very unhopeful that this country has a place for people like me. I've already been getting very apathetic to the Israeli politics, but this keeps getting reinforced. I mean, I had this thought a while ago- me and my current boyfriend will give, together, 12 years of service to the country. 12 years. And yet, the elected government believes we're inferior and unfit to be parents. Well, **** them. I don't really feel like defending them anymore.

[Boobs]

It is remarkable how quickly and readily those who claim to be defending liberal democracy and Israeli values abandon those very same principles.

[DavidB.]

I mean, I had this thought a while ago- me and my current boyfriend will give, together, 12 years of service to the country. 12 years. And yet, the elected government believes we're inferior and unfit to be parents. Well, **** them. I don't really feel like defending them anymore.

This seems to be an unrelated issue, though. On which I completely agree with you: high time for Israel to give gay couples equal rights.

[America Needs R'hllor]

I mean, I had this thought a while ago- me and my current boyfriend will give, together, 12 years of service to the country. 12 years. And yet, the elected government believes we're inferior and unfit to be parents. Well, **** them. I don't really feel like defending them anymore.

This seems to be an unrelated issue, though. On which I completely agree with you: high time for Israel to give gay couples equal rights.

Well, it's just a general feeling- I feel like this government is just making it harder and harder to defend it with these kinds of laws, while at the same time making it harder to WANT to defend it.

[Horus]

So David, how would you feel if certain towns in the Netherlands prohibited you from living there because despite being a Dutch citizen, you weren't actually Dutch?

He thinks his Judaism makes him special, he'd cry bigotry in Holland while supporting the exact same thing in Israel. This is why I wonder if he's actually a Jew, or some kind of troll job intentionally using every negative Jewish stereotype to prove some kind of point. The hypocrisy is mind boggling.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

So David, how would you feel if certain towns in the Netherlands prohibited you from living there because despite being a Dutch citizen, you weren't actually Dutch?

He thinks his Judaism makes him special, he'd cry bigotry in Holland while supporting the exact same thing in Israel. This is why I wonder if he's actually a Jew, or some kind of troll job intentionally using every negative Jewish stereotype to prove some kind of point. The hypocrisy is mind boggling.

Unfortunately, there are hypocrites in every group of people, so you can't use that as a troll test.

[SATW]

I mean, I had this thought a while ago- me and my current boyfriend will give, together, 12 years of service to the country. 12 years. And yet, the elected government believes we're inferior and unfit to be parents. Well, **** them. I don't really feel like defending them anymore.

This seems to be an unrelated issue, though. On which I completely agree with you: high time for Israel to give gay couples equal rights.

You have long defended elements like united torah and shas and ultra-nationalists. they will never allow equality to occur. ever. they are fanatics.

Likud needs to grow a spine and start supporting the Diaspora again. This jewish state bill being hijacked by the haredis is disgraceful.

I get you support nationalism but you can't ignore democracy or the diaspora. when hasbara activists like me are fuming over the state of things thats when people need to stop and ask what the hell is going on.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Do you guys think FPTP would help improve things in the long run because while it would likely give Likud a majority in the next election, it would make the party in power much more accountable to failures, which then would make it easier to throw the party in power out of office

[DavidB.]

I mean, I had this thought a while ago- me and my current boyfriend will give, together, 12 years of service to the country. 12 years. And yet, the elected government believes we're inferior and unfit to be parents. Well, **** them. I don't really feel like defending them anymore.

This seems to be an unrelated issue, though. On which I completely agree with you: high time for Israel to give gay couples equal rights.

You have long defended elements like united torah and shas and ultra-nationalists. they will never allow equality to occur. ever. they are fanatics.

Likud needs to grow a spine and start supporting the Diaspora again. This jewish state bill being hijacked by the haredis is disgraceful.

I get you support nationalism but you can't ignore democracy or the diaspora. when hasbara activists like me are fuming over the state of things thats when people need to stop and ask what the hell is going on.

What? I've defended quite a lot of things and parties -- but I've never defended Shas and UTJ. Corrupt idiots.

And yeah, the diaspora absolutely needs to be ignored. They are the ones who need to change, not Israel. Most of the diaspora does not deserve to be heard when it comes to policymaking in Israel.

[Horus]

I mean, I had this thought a while ago- me and my current boyfriend will give, together, 12 years of service to the country. 12 years. And yet, the elected government believes we're inferior and unfit to be parents. Well, **** them. I don't really feel like defending them anymore.

This seems to be an unrelated issue, though. On which I completely agree with you: high time for Israel to give gay couples equal rights.

You have long defended elements like united torah and shas and ultra-nationalists. they will never allow equality to occur. ever. they are fanatics.

Likud needs to grow a spine and start supporting the Diaspora again. This jewish state bill being hijacked by the haredis is disgraceful.

I get you support nationalism but you can't ignore democracy or the diaspora. when hasbara activists like me are fuming over the state of things thats when people need to stop and ask what the hell is going on.

What? I've defended quite a lot of things and parties -- but I've never defended Shas and UTJ. Corrupt idiots.

And yeah, the diaspora absolutely needs to be ignored. They are the ones who need to change, not Israel. Most of the diaspora does not deserve to be heard when it comes to policymaking in Israel.

And most Israelis don't deserve to be heard when it comes to policymaking here, so why are they?

[#TheShadowyAbyss]

Do you guys think FPTP would help improve things in the long run because while it would likely give Likud a majority in the next election, it would make the party in power much more accountable to failures, which then would make it easier to throw the party in power out of office

IMO FPTP would make any government unworkable, it might curb the power of the ultra-religious fanatics, Likud is extremely popular at the moment and the Left is all but dead

[America Needs R'hllor]

I mean, I had this thought a while ago- me and my current boyfriend will give, together, 12 years of service to the country. 12 years. And yet, the elected government believes we're inferior and unfit to be parents. Well, **** them. I don't really feel like defending them anymore.

This seems to be an unrelated issue, though. On which I completely agree with you: high time for Israel to give gay couples equal rights.

You have long defended elements like united torah and shas and ultra-nationalists. they will never allow equality to occur. ever. they are fanatics.

Likud needs to grow a spine and start supporting the Diaspora again. This jewish state bill being hijacked by the haredis is disgraceful.

I get you support nationalism but you can't ignore democracy or the diaspora. when hasbara activists like me are fuming over the state of things thats when people need to stop and ask what the hell is going on.

What? I've defended quite a lot of things and parties -- but I've never defended Shas and UTJ. Corrupt idiots.

And yeah, the diaspora absolutely needs to be ignored. They are the ones who need to change, not Israel. Most of the diaspora does not deserve to be heard when it comes to policymaking in Israel.

The diaspora has been heavily supporting Israel with both money and lobbying, and they're clearly angry, which is why they beautifully trolled Netanyahu by choosing Herzog as the Agency leader. Ignore them at your peril- as a small market with a large trade surplus, Israel is a country that cannot and will not survive if isolated.

[Hnv1]

Do you guys think FPTP would help improve things in the long run because while it would likely give Likud a majority in the next election, it would make the party in power much more accountable to failures, which then would make it easier to throw the party in power out of office

I already addressed FPTP earlier in this thread. Part for a small surge for Likud and Labour (and a small blow to centrists) it’s effect would be minimal, Israel is so heavily segregated between sectors that there will be very few seats that could move hands.
I think we need a German model with regional and state lists and increase the number of members in the house.

Historic facts some Israeli posters might not know: in the 50’s Ben-Gurion wanted Leibovitz to join Mapai, he agreed only if we move to FPTP, the rest is history

[Velasco]

Very promising steps towards a better Israel.

Better for whom?

[Hnv1]

As to the new basic law, we already have villages only for Jews and that’s without a law. All those place with an entry committee or Kibbutzim. On the abstract level I’m fine with that, people should be allowed to have small homogeneous settlements to match their lifestyle. I just think it could be used by small Right wing townships with their mongrel mayors (e.g. Afula)

[DavidB.]

The diaspora has been heavily supporting Israel with both money and lobbying, and they're clearly angry, which is why they beautifully trolled Netanyahu by choosing Herzog as the Agency leader. Ignore them at your peril- as a small market with a large trade surplus, Israel is a country that cannot and will not survive if isolated.

I am going to go ahead and guess that 95% of diaspora Jews don't know and don't care about this. It's just the usual American left-wing loudmouths crying again. Best not to take them seriously.

Better for whom?

For Israelis