PiT/HappyWarrior for President June '09

[Associate Justice PiT]

     It's close enough to the weekend that I think you might as well open it now.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

    Eh. The major distinction lies in that public schools are publically funded. If we give poor & middle-class children vouchers to go to private schools, the schools themselves are not receiving the money. As such, they legally remain separate.

Why don't you just make public schools better? Duh. Also if you make public schools better then families would save money. It makes the money problem a lot easier.

If he were smart, he'd support privatizing the whole school system, or at least abolish the Department of Education. Ever since the federal government got involved with them, they've been going downhill.

[Associate Justice PiT]

    Eh. The major distinction lies in that public schools are publically funded. If we give poor & middle-class children vouchers to go to private schools, the schools themselves are not receiving the money. As such, they legally remain separate.

Why don't you just make public schools better? Duh. Also if you make public schools better then families would save money. It makes the money problem a lot easier.

If he were smart, he'd support privatizing the whole school system, or at least abolish the Department of Education. Ever since the federal government got involved with them, they've been going downhill.

     I'm definitely leaning that way. Perhaps we should establish a class of government-endorsed private schools (they teach everything that we want them to teach). Poor students that enroll in them would have their tuition paid in full. Middle-class ones who enroll in them would have their tuition paid in part.

     If you want to go somewhere that teaches Creationism or Scientology or something, you would have to foot the entire bill yourself, regardless of income level though.

     Doing things this way should reduce government expenditures somewhat, since we aren't being forced to pay for running public schools. Even though those are run by local governments, the people are still being forced to pay through the nose for inferior education.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

When the local counties controlled the school more than the Federal Government did, they were actually decent. These days, it's hard to get a good education in public schools in most of the country. Some areas have good ones, but they are few and far between. Cut taxes and privatize the school system and create a system to where the government pays for poor children to attend schools. I shouldn't be paying taxes for public schools if I don't use them. The whole system is a mess and needs more change than just throwing more and more money at it. Bush increased funding for schools more than any President in a long time and we've only seen marginal improvement. We need to go in a drastically different direction.

[Hash]

    Eh. The major distinction lies in that public schools are publically funded. If we give poor & middle-class children vouchers to go to private schools, the schools themselves are not receiving the money. As such, they legally remain separate.

Why don't you just make public schools better? Duh. Also if you make public schools better then families would save money. It makes the money problem a lot easier.

If he were smart, he'd support privatizing the whole school system, or at least abolish the Department of Education. Ever since the federal government got involved with them, they've been going downhill.

There is no Department of Education in Atlasia (despite gporter thinking there was one).

[Associate Justice PiT]

    Eh. The major distinction lies in that public schools are publically funded. If we give poor & middle-class children vouchers to go to private schools, the schools themselves are not receiving the money. As such, they legally remain separate.

Why don't you just make public schools better? Duh. Also if you make public schools better then families would save money. It makes the money problem a lot easier.

If he were smart, he'd support privatizing the whole school system, or at least abolish the Department of Education. Ever since the federal government got involved with them, they've been going downhill.

There is no Department of Education in Atlasia (despite gporter thinking there was one).

we should make one then!!!

     NO on more bureaucracy.

[Associate Justice PiT]

    Eh. The major distinction lies in that public schools are publically funded. If we give poor & middle-class children vouchers to go to private schools, the schools themselves are not receiving the money. As such, they legally remain separate.

Why don't you just make public schools better? Duh. Also if you make public schools better then families would save money. It makes the money problem a lot easier.

If he were smart, he'd support privatizing the whole school system, or at least abolish the Department of Education. Ever since the federal government got involved with them, they've been going downhill.

There is no Department of Education in Atlasia (despite gporter thinking there was one).

we should make one then!!!

     NO on more bureaucracy.

huh?

     A Department of Education would increase government bureaucracy. Do we really want a bigger government than what we have now?

[Associate Justice PiT]

    Eh. The major distinction lies in that public schools are publically funded. If we give poor & middle-class children vouchers to go to private schools, the schools themselves are not receiving the money. As such, they legally remain separate.

Why don't you just make public schools better? Duh. Also if you make public schools better then families would save money. It makes the money problem a lot easier.

If he were smart, he'd support privatizing the whole school system, or at least abolish the Department of Education. Ever since the federal government got involved with them, they've been going downhill.

There is no Department of Education in Atlasia (despite gporter thinking there was one).

we should make one then!!!

     NO on more bureaucracy.

huh?

     A Department of Education would increase government bureaucracy. Do we really want a bigger government than what we have now?

They could just be more affective. Set down the game rules and that is that.

     Government has, in my experience, not been the most effective agent in most instances. We should put power in the hands of the people, not the employees who draw up the school districts.

[Associate Justice PiT]

    Eh. The major distinction lies in that public schools are publically funded. If we give poor & middle-class children vouchers to go to private schools, the schools themselves are not receiving the money. As such, they legally remain separate.

Why don't you just make public schools better? Duh. Also if you make public schools better then families would save money. It makes the money problem a lot easier.

If he were smart, he'd support privatizing the whole school system, or at least abolish the Department of Education. Ever since the federal government got involved with them, they've been going downhill.

There is no Department of Education in Atlasia (despite gporter thinking there was one).

we should make one then!!!

     NO on more bureaucracy.

huh?

     A Department of Education would increase government bureaucracy. Do we really want a bigger government than what we have now?

They could just be more affective. Set down the game rules and that is that.

     Government has, in my experience, not been the most effective agent in most instances. We should put power in the hands of the people, not the employees who draw up the school districts.

well if we are left up to it it will not be organized.

     What's the point of a department that is not organized?

[Associate Justice PiT]

     So it shouldn't be left up to us?

[Associate Justice PiT]

     That's what my plan is too. Except my plan can be carried out with very limited federal involvement.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     The idea is that the Senate would contract independent companies to secretly survey the curriculum of the private schools. Based on the information that is obtained, the government would decide what schools to offer vouchers for kids to go to.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     The government decides what schools it will give kids vouchers to go to. Important distinction.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     Thank you for the eloquent counter-argument.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     So they don't waste money on having kids be taught nonsense.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     So you would say that you are currently being taught nonsense?

[Bacon King]

     The idea is that the Senate would contract independent companies to secretly survey the curriculum of the private schools. Based on the information that is obtained, the government would decide what schools to offer vouchers for kids to go to.

a few questions here.

1. Why audit school curriculum through a private company rather than through a relevant government agency? Considering that this company will neccesarily be running a profit in this business would it not be cheaper, more effective, and better for the taxpayer for the government to do this supposed curriculum check itself?

2. How stringent of standards do you propose the government apply before it allows vouchers to be used? Who gets to decide these standards?

3. Do you support the abolition of public schooling or simply the involvement of the federal government in it?

[Associate Justice PiT]

     The idea is that the Senate would contract independent companies to secretly survey the curriculum of the private schools. Based on the information that is obtained, the government would decide what schools to offer vouchers for kids to go to.

a few questions here.

1. Why audit school curriculum through a private company rather than through a relevant government agency? Considering that this company will neccesarily be running a profit in this business would it not be cheaper, more effective, and better for the taxpayer for the government to do this supposed curriculum check itself?

2. How stringent of standards do you propose the government apply before it allows vouchers to be used? Who gets to decide these standards?

3. Do you support the abolition of public schooling or simply the involvement of the federal government in it?

     1. Since the private company is working for a profit, it's less likely to succumb to bureaucracy. Its higher-ups know that they need to do a good job or else we'll get another company to do the job.

     2. Not too stringent at all. Just make sure that they aren't teaching Scientology or something similarly crazy. It would probably be voted on by the Senate.

     3. I'm undecided on that. My proposal is more geared towards the former, though I'm open to either side.

     So you would say that you are currently being taught nonsense?

For example if you are going to become an english teacher then you don't need to really know math.

     Not everyone knows what they are going to do in high school, or they change their mind. Would you want to only take courses relevant to veterinary medicine, get to college, & then decide that you really want to be a movie critic? You would need to go back & do the courses you would have needed for that position, setting you back a few years.

[Bacon King]

Sorry for the interrogation here, but I'm pretty sure I'd like to better know my next regional senator's ( ) less, eh, mainstream beliefs.

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Can one not simply apply specific checks and standards in order to prevent inefficiency within the system? I do not understand your compulsion here to jump towards the more expensive solution. In addition, considering a total lack of accountability within this private company there's a significant risk of corruption in the form of collusion between these private auditors and the schools. It just sometimes doesn't make sense to throw in a middleman.

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What about creationist Christian? Islam? And again, who gets to decide the standards?

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Well, first off, what's your argument for that?

And in either incident, wouldn't your program above still keep a pretty sizable amount of government involvement in education anyway, by deciding what schools are allowed to recieve vouchers? Is this not discriminatory in favor of the wealthier students, who do not face these restrictions?

[Associate Justice PiT]

Sorry for the interrogation here, but I'm pretty sure I'd like to better know my next regional senator's ( ) less, eh, mainstream beliefs.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Can one not simply apply specific checks and standards in order to prevent inefficiency within the system? I do not understand your compulsion here to jump towards the more expensive solution. In addition, considering a total lack of accountability within this private company there's a significant risk of corruption in the form of collusion between these private auditors and the schools. It just sometimes doesn't make sense to throw in a middleman.

     What checks & standards do you have in mind, exactly? Thank you though, I didn't realize before how expensive contracting it out to a private company would be. I suppose that it could be contracted out to the FBI, as a more cost-effective measure.

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What about creationist Christian? Islam? And again, who gets to decide the standards?[/quote]

     Creationism would be out of the question, if that's what you're getting at. Islam would be fine, though obviously Creationist Islam would not. I forgot to mention it earlier, but the Senate would decide on it (the standards being subject to veto by the Governors).

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Well, first off, what's your argument for that?

And in either incident, wouldn't your program above still keep a pretty sizable amount of government involvement in education anyway, by deciding what schools are allowed to recieve vouchers? Is this not discriminatory in favor of the wealthier students, who do not face these restrictions?
[/quote]

     I suppose that the bureaucracy of government has greatly reduced the quality of the public school system. I also suppose my proposal is also workable in the latter case, since it allows the federal government some regulatory power over public education.

     Also, I would guess that many schools in most areas would comply with the government's standards, so I doubt that their options would be too greatly restricted. Even then, it helps disadvantaged students by steering them towards places where they can learn things like Evolution (which is necessary to help negate the brain drain in our society).

     It does keep a large amount of government influence in education, but not as much as exists under the current system. My goal is to reduce the size of government, not eliminate it entirely.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     Having lived in San Francisco for a long time, I've experienced government bureaucracy firsthand. Naturally, I don't like it, & I want to do something about it.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     The city has an enormously bloated budget. Does it really make sense for any city to have a budget that's equal to $18,000 per citizen? Almost all city positions immediately pay >$100,000 per year.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     As I just said, city government positions are obscenely overpaid. If you look here, you'll see that pay for city employees ranges from $50,000 to over $150,000 a year.

[Хahar 🤔]

     As I just said, city government positions are obscenely overpaid. If you look here, you'll see that pay for city employees ranges from $50,000 to over $150,000 a year.

Not at all obscene, or at least no more so than the cost of living.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     As I just said, city government positions are obscenely overpaid. If you look here, you'll see that pay for city employees ranges from $50,000 to over $150,000 a year.

Not at all obscene, or at least no more so than the cost of living.

     The cost of living in San Francisco is overblown. I've found that I have to eat at fancy restaurants every night & drive all over the place just to spend $30,000 in the course of a year. Anyone not named Opebo can get by on about $50,000 a year here. $150,000 is overkill.