Rioting in Paris

[opebo]

My brother lives in Paris and he says he doesn't even notice anything.  I don't think it's the massive deal that the media makes it out to be.

I'm sure the poor people are conveniently segregated, though I admit probably not quite so effectively as in the US.

[dazzleman]

I'll say it again -- this proves the danger of having a hostile unassimilated mass of people living among you.  The British have seen the down side of this too.  Nobody is immune to it.  I think if a society is not prepared to accept people for assimilation, and apply strong pressure on them to assimilate, then it should not admit them in the first place.

dazzleman, the US has the exact same situation in the form of poor African-Americans in the ghetto - perhaps you've noticed them rioting every ten years or so?  They can't 'assimilate' because of what the whites are doing to them - someone has to be on the bottom, dazzle, in a highly unequal heirarchical society.  Naturally that group will riot occasionally.   Such is the price you pay for privaledge.  (Not really that steep a price as the oppressed mostly kill one another and the working class cops.)

If you read some of my other posts on this topic, you'd see that I said we have a similar problem in the US.  It's always a dreadful mistake to refuse to allow people to assimilate and be part of mainstream society.  We are paying for it, just as the French are.  Once this chain is set in motion, solving the problem is not simple.  This is a very good example of the old adage "a stitch in time saves nine" or "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."  Once these situations get entrenched, they are self-perpetuating.

I'm not going to get into an involved debate with you because I know that's not really what you want.  You just want to stir up trouble, as always, rather than contribute anything meaningful or constructive to the discussion.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

If you read some of my other posts on this topic, you'd see that I said we have a similar problem in the US.

Actually... you don't. There are certain superficial simileraties (ie; the fact that we're dealing with poor urban areas with large minority populations) but most of the important aspects of it, you don't really get in the U.S these days.
We don't even have anything like it over here (we would have if the LibDems had held onto Tower Hamlets LBC in the '90's but that's a different story...)

[Sam Spade]

My brother lives in Paris and he says he doesn't even notice anything.  I don't think it's the massive deal that the media makes it out to be.

I'm sure the poor people are conveniently segregated, though I admit probably not quite so effectively as in the US.

He's only twenty, you think he can afford a nice, downtown Paris apartment?  Yeah, right...

Downtown Paris makes New York look cheap.

However, most of the rioting is occuring around the various housing projects that dot the suburbs of Paris, especially on the eastern and northern (in this case, mainly northeastern side of town). 

Unless he lives in these areas, he may not see anything, because there aren't many ways to get into these areas.  I think most of them have one road which goes in and out, that's all.

[dazzleman]

If you read some of my other posts on this topic, you'd see that I said we have a similar problem in the US.

Actually... you don't. There are certain superficial simileraties (ie; the fact that we're dealing with poor urban areas with large minority populations) but most of the important aspects of it, you don't really get in the U.S these days.
We don't even have anything like it over here (we would have if the LibDems had held onto Tower Hamlets LBC in the '90's but that's a different story...)

I guess it's a matter of degree.  We do unfortunately have longer-term alienated minority groups who are significantly worse off than the rest of society.  That is never a good situation.  We have had riots, as has Britain.

Still, I recognize that our problem doesn't appear to be as bad, and I hope it stays that way.

[J. J.]

Muslims ought to be expelled from the West. They seem to just cause trouble wherever they go.

No doubt to be followed by the Jews, Blacks, Gypsies, Freemasons, socialist, trade unionists, and those that stabbed us in the back at Versailles. [/sarcasm]

One again we see the "tolerance" wing of Democratic Party.

[afleitch]

I think any sympathy for the demonstrators fades away after 10 days of riots leading to arson attacks on nursery schools and on a disabled woman. These people no longer have any reason to riot other than the relentless of joy of destruction and playing cat and mouse with the police.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I don't think it's possible to know anything about the situation and be symphathetic towards either the rioters or the various branches of the French Government.

[afleitch]

I hope Bezons has been unaffected. Everyone there was pretty friendly

[CARLHAYDEN]

Exactly!

Velepin is getting what he deserves.

As long as the scum where attacking Americans Velepin was their bon ami.

Now they're going after the frogs (much easier prey).

[dazzleman]

Exactly!

Velepin is getting what he deserves.

As long as the scum where attacking Americans Velepin was their bon ami.

Now they're going after the frogs (much easier prey).

^^^^^^^^^

[Michael Z]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4411192.stm

This has gone completely out of hand. It's basically like the LA riots, but on a much, much larger scale.

Me and my girlfriend were thinking of going to Paris this December, but now I'm not entirely sure if that would be such a good idea. Except holidays in France should be fairly cheap right now.

[opebo]

... there aren't many ways to get into these areas.  I think most of them have one road which goes in and out, that's all.

Good planning eh? Keep 'em contained

Me and my girlfriend were thinking of going to Paris this December, but now I'm not entirely sure if that would be such a good idea. Except holidays in France should be fairly cheap right now.

December?!  Sheesh, in December you should go to Rio de Jianero or Buenos Aires, not Paris.  And if you want a cheap dose of French-ness in the summertime, go to Montreal.

[Platypus]

opebo, maybe they were planning on Paris cos it's what...45 minutes away?

[Jens]

I don't think it's possible to know anything about the situation and be symphathetic towards either the rioters or the various branches of the French Government.

I agree completely

[Jens]

Muslims ought to be expelled from the West. They seem to just cause trouble wherever they go.

No doubt to be followed by the Jews, Blacks, Gypsies, Freemasons, socialist, trade unionists, and those that stabbed us in the back at Versailles. [/sarcasm]

One again we see the "tolerance" wing of Democratic Party.

Oh no, phknrocket1k just shows his tolerance and human insight by hating all muslims and blaming them for everything - my personal favorite was in another thread where he called the muslims "a cult." That has to be the biggest cult ever

[Michael Z]

opebo, maybe they were planning on Paris cos it's what...45 minutes away?

Yup. I mean, I'd love to visit Rio, but it's just a little further than Paris.

Btw, you guys ever seen a French film called La Haine (aka Hate)? It more or less predicted what's happening right now.

[Maastricht]

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In fact everybody's wondering what to do. Borloo (cities and integration minister) wants to destroy in some cities more than 75% of the existant buildings (in sometimes really poor condition), to build individual houses ... But it's a really long process, who will not be finished before 2015, and nobody is really sure of the result. FN (extreme right), PC (communists) and some PS (socialists) members asked for Sarkozy (and sometimes villepin and Chirac) resignation, but I don't think it will happen. In fact FN is asking something like twice a month for Chirac's resignation, even if nothing's happening, so ...

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Yup. People with mayors demonstrated yesterday in many cities of Paris area , and last night was calm in these cities.

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Exactly. Absolutely nothing happened in the city of Paris during those last 10 days. Same thing in most of France mayor cities. It isn't like if Paris was burning.

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I've never heard of any trouble there ... It's like in New York : you can have big troubles in Newark, but at the same time everything's calm in Yonkers or in Paterson ...

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Nah, Sarkozy is getting what he desserves. He's the Ministre de l'Intérieur, which means he's in charge of the security of the French population. and he failed. Of course Villepin has some responsibility in there, but if one should be expelled from the government, it would be Sarkozy.

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LA Riots : 53 deaths. Paris Area Riots : 0 deaths ...

The point of view of the other countries of the world on these riots astonishes much French people, who don't regard this business as if it was of extreme importance. Many people to whom I said that CNN news begin with these riots were very surprised: the only danger in these riots is to leave its car outside the night. There wasn't for the moment any incident during the day. French people are perfectly aware that there's everyday many incidents in the Bronx, the Queens or in Harlem. but they're still going to Manhattan. Why shouldn't it be the same thing in Paris ?

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Excellent precision. This film dates of 1995... It's been 10 years now we're conscious of this phenomenon, but we still don't know how to treat it.

[Michael Z]

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LA Riots : 53 deaths. Paris Area Riots : 0 deaths ...

I meant in terms of geographical area, not in terms of deaths. The riots haven't just affected Paris, but several other cities across France.

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There isn't a riot with hundreds of arrests every night in Queens or Harlem. While some people here are fairly hysterical (eg. AuH20 suggesting that Paris is burning), you act as if there wasn't any riot taking place at all. In fact, from what you're saying, I'm a bit tempted to suggest that many people in France are simply turning a blind eye to what's going on.

Btw, how does all this affect Sarkozy? Does it damage or improve his chances of becoming President?

[Middle-aged Europe]

In fact FN is asking something like twice a month for Chirac's resignation, even if nothing's happening, so ...

LOL

[CARLHAYDEN]

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Nah, Sarkozy is getting what he desserves. He's the Ministre de l'Intérieur, which means he's in charge of the security of the French population. and he failed. Of course Villepin has some responsibility in there, but if one should be expelled from the government, it would be Sarkozy.

Ah, but Sarkozy wants to deal with the Situation, while Villepin sympathizes with the scum as they're anti-American too.  Villepin opposes arresting the scum.

<<quote fixing - PB>>

[dazzleman]

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Yup. People with mayors demonstrated yesterday in many cities of Paris area , and last night was calm in these cities.

Well, keep appeasing them and let me know how it turns out.  It worked out really well with the Nazis, so it should work well with these people too.

BTW, I heard that some of the violence last night was the worst yet.

[Middle-aged Europe]

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Nah, Sarkozy is getting what he desserves. He's the Ministre de l'Intérieur, which means he's in charge of the security of the French population. and he failed. Of course Villepin has some responsibility in there, but if one should be expelled from the government, it would be Sarkozy.

Ah, but Sarkozy wants to deal with the Situation, while Villepin sympathizes with the scum as they're anti-American too.  Villepin opposes arresting the scum.

<<quote fixing - PB>>

Yeah, I suppose that's the reason.


Sarkozy: Monsieur premier ministre, the suburbs are on fire! Let me crush those Muslims with the only language they understand: brutal, merciless force.

Villepin: So, Muslims you say?

Sarkozy: Yes, thousands of them.

Villepin: Mhm... I've read somewhere that Muslims are hating Americans.

Sarkozy: That's true, monsieur premier ministre. They hate them for their freedoms.

Villepin: AH! In this case let them have their fun! Enemies of this awful United States can't be so bad after all.

Sarkozy: *sigh* But the suburbs!

Villepin: Suburbs suck anyway.

Sarkozy: *rolls eyes*

Villepin: And with some luck the riots will even reach Disneyland Paris and this terrible monument of American cultural imperialism will be wiped off the face of Earth once and for all!

Sarkozy: Mon Dieu!

Villepin: Nicolas, you know that we we're a secular state. No more mentions of God in my present, please. And now leave. I will have dinner with the Ambassador of Iran in half an hour.

[Bono]

"the riots have been caused by France’s failure to implement Marxism"

[Bono]

Kadhafi a affirmé la disposition de son pays à aider Paris à dépasser ces événements regrettables

"Mouammar Kadhafi a exprimé son inquiétude face à la vague de violence à laquelle certaines banlieues de la capitale française sont confrontées depuis quelques jours, a appris la PANA, de source officielle.

Lors d`un entretien téléphonique samedi avec le président français Jacques Chirac, le leader libyen a affirmé la disposition et l`attachement de son pays à aider Paris à dépasser ces événements regrettables.

Selon des sources officielles à Tripoli, le président français a rassuré son homologue libyen de la situation dans les banlieues parisiennes précisant que tout est sous contrôle."