Is the British Labour Party anti-Semitic?

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Is it "goysplaining" to say that Corbyn isn't going to literally start a Final Solution? I'm critical of the man and the party on the issue, but I really think that's hyperbole. For another comparison, it's pretty clear that the conservative party is Islamophobic, but only the most deranged Tory hater believes Boris and co are going to start a mass pogrom. Like, not to want to go down the "actually we found a Jew who thinks it's OK so I can say k***" dumb, but I highly doubt people like Ed Miliband and Alex Sobel would be keeping the whip if they believed that. (I know of the idea of the self-hating Jew, but I would feel weird as a Gentile labeling any Jew as self-hating)

It's clear to me that there is an anti-Semitic problem in Labour, which isn't to say that the majority of Labour's members are anti-semitic, but that leadership has ignored the issue for too long especially because the current leadership spent years associating themselves with factions of the far-left that are certainly anti-Semitic (e.g. they use "Zionist" as a perjorative, are obsessed with the supposed "control" that Israel and/or Mossad have over Western governments, indulge in the most crass insinuations about Jews in relations to banking and so on). I don't think this is unique to Labour - and if the party was to start griping about unfairness, they wouldn't be totally unreasonable to point at similar examples in the Lib Dems, Tories and Greens, but a party that defines itself as anti-racist must be especially vigilant in ridding itself of the taint.

I'm pretty sure you're posting in good faith, so a few things:

1) I haven't seen anyone say that Corbyn is going to literally going start another final solution (that was not how I interpreted Ray's post) and I certainly haven't said anything to that effect.  Nor would I because obviously Corbyn isn't going to start some sort of second Holocaust.  

2) There is middle ground between "Jeremy Corbyn is not an anti-Semite" and "Jeremy Corbyn is literally the next Hitler."  

3) That said, it's hardly unreasonable to suggest that at the more extreme end of possible scenarios is one where Corbyn gives the appearance of tacit approval of violent anti-Semitism more or less the way Trump did of violent racism when he tried to "both sides" Charlottesville.  That isn't the most likely outcome imo, but it wouldn't exactly be way off-brand for Corbyn either.

4) On a related note - and this next part isn't directed at you, so much as it is an expression of general frustration with certain maroon-avatars - it's really starting to get on my nerves how certain folks on Atlas seem to feel every Jewish poster owes them an explanation for any dumb thing they heard another Jewish persons say on Twitter once.  We're not a frigging hive mind and not all Jewish people feel the exact same way about every issue.

Go on then, you explain to me how a few people s***posting on Twitter is going to lead to a new Kristallnacht.

If s***posting could cause a new Kristallnacht, then it'd have already happened the day you created your account.  See, I can give dumb, bad-faith responses too

Just a question to those who have queried my post above - so what do you think a Corbyn-led government would actually *do* to harm Jewish people if it was in power?

This is a fairly important thing regarding any supposed AS tendencies, but never seems to get a proper answer.

How would we know?

There's scenarios where it's limited to harassing "Zionists" out of public service and continuing their ongoing process of sweeping antisemitic harassment and abuse under the rug.

There's also scenarios where, holding the wheels of power, things move very fast and very bloody with no chance for British Jewry to escape.

Wouldn't it be a good idea to not find out?

No such "scenarios" exist, save in the minds of those who are utterly and terminally deranged.

The main thing that may *actually* happen is that those lobbying for Israel might not get as favourable treatment.

Of course, even this will be intolerable AS to some.

Thank goodness Atlas has you to goysplain anti-Semitism to the forum’s Jewish posters  Perhaps now you can enlighten us as to how you find the time to build straw men when you’re already so busy moving goal posts.

Buddy, Coryn is not going to start a second Final Solution. Get over yourself.

Speaking of getting over things, have you gotten over the fact that no one else on Atlas liked season eight of Game of Thrones or do you still think RINO Tom/GrassRoots/whichever R-IL it was you blew up at earlier this year is leading a forum conspiracy against you?

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Just a question to those who have queried my post above - so what do you think a Corbyn-led government would actually *do* to harm Jewish people if it was in power?

This is a fairly important thing regarding any supposed AS tendencies, but never seems to get a proper answer.

How would we know?

There's scenarios where it's limited to harassing "Zionists" out of public service and continuing their ongoing process of sweeping antisemitic harassment and abuse under the rug.

There's also scenarios where, holding the wheels of power, things move very fast and very bloody with no chance for British Jewry to escape.

Wouldn't it be a good idea to not find out?

No such "scenarios" exist, save in the minds of those who are utterly and terminally deranged.

The main thing that may *actually* happen is that those lobbying for Israel might not get as favourable treatment.

Of course, even this will be intolerable AS to some.

Thank goodness Atlas has you to goysplain anti-Semitism to the forum’s Jewish posters   Perhaps now you can enlighten us as to how you find the time to build straw men when you’re already so busy moving goal posts.

Buddy, Coryn is not going to start a second Final Solution. Get over yourself.

You're a long-time Corbyn loyalist on this forum. Your post reads like more routine gaslighting.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

More heat than light in this thread thusfar, I think. I suppose I should comment because, as is well known, this is the issue that I cancelled my not short membership and even longer affiliation with the Labour Party over.

What is an institution? It is made up of the individuals within it, of its rules and practices, of its collective actions and its collective memories. If it is an institution with some form of membership structure, then it is quite possible for the institution to have characteristics at a corporate level that are not shared at an individual level by a majority of members. It is actually very common. I don't think it is really possible to discuss this issue without that point being acknowledged.

Anyway, I was asked about some of this a little while ago and most of what I wrote in response seems relevant, so instead of just repeating myself, I will quote the relevant parts:

You recently cancelled your membership in the Labour Party over the pervasiveness of antisemitism within certain elements of the Party, and over the inaction of Party leadership to address the problem.

That was one reason, yes. Though about the institution as much as the leadership specifically (even if the two are linked), and it's possible that I'd have come to a different decision if I lived somewhere with a less... um... problematic CLP.

What do you believe are some structural reforms that could help uproot antisemitism? Which groups or people do you believe to bear the most responsibility for this crisis?

1. The big problem institutionally is that there is no independent complaints and disciplinary procedure, and that there isn't even a functional one that happens to be partial. It's a complete disaster. I think one of the most telling episodes in this affair actually concerned a complaint of about a different kind of racism, and that's why it's so telling. Anas Sarwar (who, for the record, I distrust and dislike) made a complaint relating to a racist remark made by a Hamilton councillor¹ who just happens to be one of the most powerful people in the trade union/local government nexus in his part of Scotland. Sarwar is affiliated with the Wrong Side from an institutional perspective, while the man he complained about (as noted) happens to be part of the furniture. Various procedural absurdities were pulled, and the councillor was officially cleared. You may just possibly see the problem here. There are other things that need to be done, but this is the most important thing.

2. This is actually quite complicated. Firstly there's the part that is all about factionalist madness; the way the 'need' to protect Corbyn from his patchy record and undeniable blind spots has lead pretty directly to bad practice, worse precedents and general paranoia over the matter. Bad enough, but it doesn't (can't) explain the scale of the problem.

Essentially there are three... no... four elements to this. The first is the dangerous self-congratualistic habit that has, for quite some time now, led a lot of people in Labour to believe that because Labour Is An Anti-Racist Party that Good Comrades Cannot Be Racists. So blind eyes are turned and excuses are made and that's just the way things are; look at how many people continued to insist that Livingstone could not possibly have really meant the things he said until he made it all so very extremely explicit. The second is the lamentable tendency (going back at least forty years) for ~ The Conflict ~² to be used as a factional proxy in the toxic world of student and Young Labour politics. The third is not about the Labour Party, but about what we might call... I don't know... wider Left Culture (often people who are more liberal than anything and not all that left wing, but who read e.g. The Guardian), along with the Hard/Far Left specifically. The latter has had issues with antisemitism for a very long time, and this became endemic and even characteristic after the (almost entirely Jewish) right-wing of the CPGB crossed over into Kinnockism in the 1980s and never returned. A growing obsession with ~ The Conflict ~ and a tendency to see it as symbolic of all that is bad about the world (oh dear) in the former set of circles often turns rather cluelessly toxic. The key thing here is that the latter are very influential in certain trade unions and now in the Party hierarchy as well, while the former are much more likely to have membership cards than previously. The fourth is that, bluntly, antisemitism runs very deep within British society and culture. This is relevant to the previous three things, but also relates to something else: a lot of angry middle aged and elderly people who were not previously politically active or often even particularly political have been inspired by the (cheap, yes, but not unskilled) populist rhetoric and simple narratives provided by Corbyn and the rest of the Labour Left at present. That in itself is not a problem. Where it has become an issue is that there has been no 'political education' to accompany this, no warding off of the ghastly old spectre of the 'Socialism of Fools', which is a bit of an issue in a country which antisemitic sentiment is as deeply rooted as this. Where it then gets extremely messy is that often these factors combine.

<sub>1. There's actually an Atlas link to this: back when afleitch was a Conservative, he was an unsuccessful candidate against this guy in a local election.

2. Credit to Nathan for that term.</sub>

Some additional comments are worth making. The first is that Labour, as an institution, also happens to deal appallingly with claims of sexual harassment and has, in general, an internal culture that a lot of people would find to be... um... aggressively masculine. As with the Sarwar case, this different problem highlights something of the true nature of this issue.

The second is that while it is not rational to belief that a Corbyn government (especially one without a Corbynite parliamentary majority: not possible, by the way, even if Labour were to win a majority, somehow, in the present election) would present as a material threat to the Jewish community, it is not actually reasonable to demand cold rationality from the Jewish community on the subject of its safety, given that the Holocaust remains, just about, within living memory and most of them lost family members to it. This does deeply complicate exactly how people on the Left can respond, and I understand that it makes things difficult. Nevertheless...

A third and, mercifully you may well say, final point now: an additional issue is that for a brief but significant period in the 1950s and 60s (a very important time in the history of the Jewish community in Britain for obvious reasons), the Labour Party was one of the main bulwarks against antisemitism in British society. There was no easier way to get on the wrong side of Gaitskell or Wilson than to be caught making an antisemitic remark: some otherwise promising MPs had their careers derailed for doing so. This was a long time ago now, but history is history and it has added a real sense of betrayal to what has happened: e.g. that the institution that Grandfather voted for is now like this being widely seen as adding a grotesquely personal insult to what would be felt as an injury no matter.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

I'm pretty sure you're posting in good faith, so a few things:

1) I haven't seen anyone say that Corbyn is going to literally going start another final solution (that was not how I interpreted Ray's post) and I certainly haven't said anything to that effect.  Nor would I because obviously Corbyn isn't going to start some sort of second Holocaust. 

2) There is middle ground between "Jeremy Corbyn is not an anti-Semite" and "Jeremy Corbyn is literally the next Hitler." 

3) That said, it's hardly unreasonable to suggest that at the more extreme end of possible scenarios is one where Corbyn gives the appearance of tacit approval of violent anti-Semitism more or less the way Trump did of violent racism when he tried to "both sides" Charlottesville.  That isn't the most likely outcome imo, but it wouldn't exactly be way off-brand for Corbyn either.

4) On a related note - and this next part isn't directed at you, so much as it is an expression of general frustration with certain maroon-avatars - it's really starting to get on my nerves how certain folks on Atlas seem to feel every Jewish poster owes them an explanation for any dumb thing they heard another Jewish persons say on Twitter once.  We're not a frigging hive mind and not all Jewish people feel the exact same way about every issue.

I may have misunderstood Ray, but I seem to remember similar statements from him that seemed to suggest he feared Corbyn would drop a nuclear missile in Israel. The issue is that the AS that Corbyn has surrounded himself in isn't that kind - which in this country remains the domain of the far-right, a faction which - regardless of what you may think about Corbyn - has no truck with the Labour leader, and despises him for many reasons. Corbyn's AS is more the "muted" kind endemic in the middle-class of this country (and probably most countries) and in his case is wrapped up around the obsession with supposed Israeli influence. Definitely something problematic that should be pulled out, but a clear step (in my mind) from Trump's "good people" remark about those chanting "Jews shall not replace us".

Definitely agree with the bolded. Throughout this whole debate, I've tried to read the opinions of British Jews throughout the spectrum and they obviously are not even remotely operating under a hive-mind. Rest assured, if it gets to the stage that Jews across the board are leaving and casting aside the party, I would follow them out. No policy plank is worth that kind of garbage.

A third and, mercifully you may well say, final point now: an additional issue is that for a brief but significant period in the 1950s and 60s (a very important time in the history of the Jewish community in Britain for obvious reasons), the Labour Party was one of the main bulwarks against antisemitism in British society. There was no easier way to get on the wrong side of Gaitskell or Wilson than to be caught making an antisemitic remark: some otherwise promising MPs had their careers derailed for doing so. This was a long time ago now, but history is history and it has added a real sense of betrayal to what has happened: e.g. that the institution that Grandfather voted for is now like this being widely seen as adding a grotesquely personal insult to what would be felt as an injury no matter.

didn't Bevin have problematic views, or am I mistaken? Although I suppose he was the old guard by that stage anyway.

[CumbrianLefty]

Bevin was indeed a pretty unashamed anti-Semite, yes. Which makes his adoption as a poster boy by some of the "Eustonite" brigade in recent years all the more ironic.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

the Lib Dems (when Farron was in charge) ought to incur the same level of denunciation as Labour has.

I tuned out from the donnybrook surrounding Farron eventually, and I've made my low opinion of the Lib Dems as a party very clear on this forum, but is there any reason at all to believe that he used or would have used the party structure to grind his own axe about gay people to nearly the same extent that the Corbyn people have used Labour's party structure to grind their axes about Jews? The crux of people's problem with Labour is not merely that Corbyn is personally antisemitic.

[GoTfan]

Just a question to those who have queried my post above - so what do you think a Corbyn-led government would actually *do* to harm Jewish people if it was in power?

This is a fairly important thing regarding any supposed AS tendencies, but never seems to get a proper answer.

How would we know?

There's scenarios where it's limited to harassing "Zionists" out of public service and continuing their ongoing process of sweeping antisemitic harassment and abuse under the rug.

There's also scenarios where, holding the wheels of power, things move very fast and very bloody with no chance for British Jewry to escape.

Wouldn't it be a good idea to not find out?

No such "scenarios" exist, save in the minds of those who are utterly and terminally deranged.

The main thing that may *actually* happen is that those lobbying for Israel might not get as favourable treatment.

Of course, even this will be intolerable AS to some.

Thank goodness Atlas has you to goysplain anti-Semitism to the forum’s Jewish posters  Perhaps now you can enlighten us as to how you find the time to build straw men when you’re already so busy moving goal posts.

Buddy, Coryn is not going to start a second Final Solution. Get over yourself.

Speaking of getting over things, have you gotten over the fact that no one else on Atlas liked season eight of Game of Thrones or do you still think RINO Tom/GrassRoots/whichever R-IL it was you blew up at earlier this year is leading a forum conspiracy against you?

Buddy, if you need to bring up things that happened months ago about something not even related to the subject of discussion, then I'm not sure you have much of an argument.

quote author=Corbyn is a Strasserist link=topic=342148.msg7033349#msg7033349 date=1572561092 uid=8153]

Just a question to those who have queried my post above - so what do you think a Corbyn-led government would actually *do* to harm Jewish people if it was in power?

This is a fairly important thing regarding any supposed AS tendencies, but never seems to get a proper answer.

How would we know?

There's scenarios where it's limited to harassing "Zionists" out of public service and continuing their ongoing process of sweeping antisemitic harassment and abuse under the rug.

There's also scenarios where, holding the wheels of power, things move very fast and very bloody with no chance for British Jewry to escape.

Wouldn't it be a good idea to not find out?

No such "scenarios" exist, save in the minds of those who are utterly and terminally deranged.

The main thing that may *actually* happen is that those lobbying for Israel might not get as favourable treatment.

Of course, even this will be intolerable AS to some.

Thank goodness Atlas has you to goysplain anti-Semitism to the forum’s Jewish posters   Perhaps now you can enlighten us as to how you find the time to build straw men when you’re already so busy moving goal posts.

Buddy, Coryn is not going to start a second Final Solution. Get over yourself.

You're a long-time Corbyn loyalist on this forum. Your post reads like more routine gaslighting.
[/quote]

How is me saying that Corbyn is not going to start a second Holocaust is gaslighting?

[cp]

the Lib Dems (when Farron was in charge) ought to incur the same level of denunciation as Labour has.

I tuned out from the donnybrook surrounding Farron eventually, and I've made my low opinion of the Lib Dems as a party very clear on this forum, but is there any reason at all to believe that he used or would have used the party structure to grind his own axe about gay people to nearly the same extent that the Corbyn people have used Labour's party structure to grind their axes about Jews? The crux of people's problem with Labour is not merely that Corbyn is personally antisemitic.

I see what you mean, but the threshold for a minority group (LGBT or Jewish) being rightfully upset with a political party is pretty low in either case. Jewish people have every right to be mad at Corbyn and Labour for turning a blind eye to the cranks and crypto-racists posing as 'Anti-Zionists'. Similarly, an LGBT person had every right to be mad that the Lib Dems - supposedly the party of personal freedom - would even contemplate elevating a homophobe to such a high position.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Just a question to those who have queried my post above - so what do you think a Corbyn-led government would actually *do* to harm Jewish people if it was in power?

This is a fairly important thing regarding any supposed AS tendencies, but never seems to get a proper answer.

How would we know?

There's scenarios where it's limited to harassing "Zionists" out of public service and continuing their ongoing process of sweeping antisemitic harassment and abuse under the rug.

There's also scenarios where, holding the wheels of power, things move very fast and very bloody with no chance for British Jewry to escape.

Wouldn't it be a good idea to not find out?

No such "scenarios" exist, save in the minds of those who are utterly and terminally deranged.

The main thing that may *actually* happen is that those lobbying for Israel might not get as favourable treatment.

Of course, even this will be intolerable AS to some.

Thank goodness Atlas has you to goysplain anti-Semitism to the forum’s Jewish posters  Perhaps now you can enlighten us as to how you find the time to build straw men when you’re already so busy moving goal posts.

Buddy, Coryn is not going to start a second Final Solution. Get over yourself.

Speaking of getting over things, have you gotten over the fact that no one else on Atlas liked season eight of Game of Thrones or do you still think RINO Tom/GrassRoots/whichever R-IL it was you blew up at earlier this year is leading a forum conspiracy against you?

Buddy, if you need to bring up things that happened months ago about something not even related to the subject of discussion, then I'm not sure you have much of an argument.

*snip*

Read my reply to Crabcake if you want a serious response.

[All Along The Watchtower]

I may have missed someone else pointing it out so forgive me if this has already been said, but it’s not merely Corbyn and his friends in Leadership (although they certainly are part of the problem), but what (who) the phenomenon of “Corbynism” has attracted to Labour.

That is to say, even if Corbyn and his allies in the Party are not intentionally engaging in anti-Semitic tropes or ignoring incidents of anti-Semitism within Labour circles, the indisputable reality is that Corbyn’s rise to Leadership has brought out the most noxious and extremist aspects of the Left who do indeed, to one extent or another, believe in some kind of (((Zionist))) conspiracy - and, as indicated, wrap their anti-Semitism in a thinly veiled condemnation of ISRAELI APARTHEID (or “Jewish supremacist settler-colonialism” *le sigh*). And that’s when they’re being subtle.

Not that I want to make some sort of false equivalence, but if you look at how white nationalists seem to love Donald J Trump and how he doesn’t seem to have any problems whatsoever with that support, one would hope that the anti-Semitic parts of the Left loving Corbyn would give him and his best intentioned supporters pause. Especially since, as CrabCake and others have noted, a leftist party ought to hold itself to higher standards than “but wait, we’re not any worse than the Tories!”

[cp]

I think that point was raised in another thread. It's not the strongest way to denounce Corbyn or Labour, as it reeks of the kind of specious guilt-by-association that characterizes a lot of disingenuous arguments (about AS or anything else).

Drawing comparisons between Corbyn and Trump - as people or as leaders of movements - is dubious at best, but I see what you're coming from. What I think is quite notable, however, is that Trump's flagrant racism was obvious beforehand and has only gotten worse in office. Corbyn's complacency about anti-Semitism seems to have evolved somewhat since the 00s (he is, for the record, still *way* too complacent) and I have difficulty imagining him getting away with the kind of indifference Trump has shown to political violence.

[Coastal Elitist]

Apparently Jewish voters think so:

https://twitter.com/EAA_UK/status/1190361714614775811

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

the British irony thing was the most repulsive thing he's said though tbh.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

Even today, the Labour Party is not Jeremy Corbyn...

[CumbrianLefty]

the British irony thing was the most repulsive thing he's said though tbh.

But that's the point in a way, granted it was somewhat crass and tasteless - but compared to what Farage said, or indeed the far from unknown Tory conspiracy theorising about Soros?

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

the British irony thing was the most repulsive thing he's said though tbh.

How about when he called a convicted terrorist who received seven life sentences for organizing a Hamas suicide bombing that killed seven people his “brother” on Iranian State TV.  Corbyn also implied that said terrorist should never have been imprisoned in the first place given what he was accused of (“you have to ask the question why they [Palestinians arrested for terrorism] were in prison in the first place.”).  That was much worse imo.  

Then there was the time he repeatedly compared Israel to the Nazis at an event called “Never Again — For Anyone: From Auschwitz to Gaza.”  

I hadn’t even heard of the British irony comment before, but I’d file that one under “dumb, but harmless.”  It’s certainly not the worst thing Corbyn has done by any stretch of the imagination.  I don’t know that I’d even call it anti-Semitic per-se, just...well...dumb.

the British irony thing was the most repulsive thing he's said though tbh.

But that's the point in a way, granted it was somewhat crass and tasteless - but compared to what Farage said, or indeed the far from unknown Tory conspiracy theorising about Soros?

Farage is probably worse, but that’s kind of a low bar.  “It could be worse, at least he’s not as anti-Semitic as the guy who bragged about getting 1/3 of the BNP vote” isn’t exactly going to put anyone’s mind at ease.  Plus, Corbyn is infinitely more powerful than some random UKIP grifter and thus, people are going to worry more about his views.  I guarantee people would be a lot more worried about Farage if he were leading one of England’s two largest political parties.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

the British irony thing was the most repulsive thing he's said though tbh.

But that's the point in a way, granted it was somewhat crass and tasteless - but compared to what Farage said, or indeed the far from unknown Tory conspiracy theorising about Soros?

I think most of the people raising these questions though don't support Farange or the Tories...

I think the hyperbole about how Corbyn would being about new concentration camps is pretty absurd but there's a lot of red flags that aren't being addressed well....see that image posted by me on the first page. Does posting images like that from a white supremacist website only fall under "criticism of Israel"?

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

the British irony thing was the most repulsive thing he's said though tbh.

But that's the point in a way, granted it was somewhat crass and tasteless - but compared to what Farage said, or indeed the far from unknown Tory conspiracy theorising about Soros?

I think most of the people raising these questions though don't support Farange or the Tories...

I think the hyperbole about how Corbyn would being about new concentration camps is pretty absurd but there's a lot of red flags that aren't being addressed well....see that image posted by me on the first page. Does posting images like that from a white supremacist website only fall under "criticism of Israel"?

Again, no one has said or implied Corbyn would do that.  It’s just a strawman Horus and certain maroon avatars are whipping out in an attempt to discredit legitimate concerns about Corbyn’s anti-Semitism.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

the British irony thing was the most repulsive thing he's said though tbh.

How about when he called a convicted terrorist who received seven life sentences for organizing a Hamas suicide bombing that killed seven people his “brother” on Iranian State TV.  Corbyn also implied that said terrorist should never have been imprisoned in the first place given what he was accused of (“you have to ask the question why they [Palestinians arrested for terrorism] were in prison in the first place.”).  That was much worse imo.  

Then there was the time he repeatedly compared Israel to the Nazis at an event called “Never Again — For Anyone: From Auschwitz to Gaza.”  

I hadn’t even heard of the British irony comment before, but I’d file that one under “dumb, but harmless.”  It’s certainly not the worst thing Corbyn has done by any stretch of the imagination.  I don’t know that I’d even call it anti-Semitic per-se, just...well...dumb.

The issue for me is it seemed to case "Zionists" as inherently foreign and non-British, which is one of the the more alarming form of anti-semitism around

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

the British irony thing was the most repulsive thing he's said though tbh.

But that's the point in a way, granted it was somewhat crass and tasteless - but compared to what Farage said, or indeed the far from unknown Tory conspiracy theorising about Soros?

I think most of the people raising these questions though don't support Farange or the Tories...

I think the hyperbole about how Corbyn would being about new concentration camps is pretty absurd but there's a lot of red flags that aren't being addressed well....see that image posted by me on the first page. Does posting images like that from a white supremacist website only fall under "criticism of Israel"?

Again, no one has said or implied Corbyn would do that.  It’s just a strawman Horus and certain maroon avatars are whipping out in an attempt to discredit legitimate concerns about Corbyn’s anti-Semitism.

I've seen posts here talking about "the likely refugee crisis" of Jews fleeing the UK if he became PM so no it's not a strawman. But handwaving or simply ignoring all the issues with him is absurd too.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

the British irony thing was the most repulsive thing he's said though tbh.

But that's the point in a way, granted it was somewhat crass and tasteless - but compared to what Farage said, or indeed the far from unknown Tory conspiracy theorising about Soros?

I think most of the people raising these questions though don't support Farange or the Tories...

I think the hyperbole about how Corbyn would being about new concentration camps is pretty absurd but there's a lot of red flags that aren't being addressed well....see that image posted by me on the first page. Does posting images like that from a white supremacist website only fall under "criticism of Israel"?

Again, no one has said or implied Corbyn would do that.  It’s just a strawman Horus and certain maroon avatars are whipping out in an attempt to discredit legitimate concerns about Corbyn’s anti-Semitism.

I've seen posts here talking about "the likely refugee crisis" of Jews fleeing the UK if he became PM so no it's not a strawman. But handwaving or simply ignoring all the issues with him is absurd too.

Fair, I haven’t noticed those posts myself, but I believe you.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

the British irony thing was the most repulsive thing he's said though tbh.

But that's the point in a way, granted it was somewhat crass and tasteless - but compared to what Farage said, or indeed the far from unknown Tory conspiracy theorising about Soros?

I think most of the people raising these questions though don't support Farange or the Tories...

I think the hyperbole about how Corbyn would being about new concentration camps is pretty absurd but there's a lot of red flags that aren't being addressed well....see that image posted by me on the first page. Does posting images like that from a white supremacist website only fall under "criticism of Israel"?

Again, no one has said or implied Corbyn would do that.  It’s just a strawman Horus and certain maroon avatars are whipping out in an attempt to discredit legitimate concerns about Corbyn’s anti-Semitism.

I've seen posts here talking about "the likely refugee crisis" of Jews fleeing the UK if he became PM so no it's not a strawman. But handwaving or simply ignoring all the issues with him is absurd too.

47% of British Jews say they plan to emigrate if he becomes PM. This isn't a hypothetical.

The worst case scenario of Corbyn trying to seal the borders and kill all of Britain's Jews is highly unlikely - mostly due to him not having the power. But him using every tool at his disposal to create a hostile climate for Jews, including winking at third-party violence in the way Trump does at far-right violence? That's not a big leap and it could definitely result in a very fast exodus from the UK for several hundred thousand people.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

the British irony thing was the most repulsive thing he's said though tbh.

But that's the point in a way, granted it was somewhat crass and tasteless - but compared to what Farage said, or indeed the far from unknown Tory conspiracy theorising about Soros?

I think most of the people raising these questions though don't support Farange or the Tories...

I think the hyperbole about how Corbyn would being about new concentration camps is pretty absurd but there's a lot of red flags that aren't being addressed well....see that image posted by me on the first page. Does posting images like that from a white supremacist website only fall under "criticism of Israel"?

Again, no one has said or implied Corbyn would do that.  It’s just a strawman Horus and certain maroon avatars are whipping out in an attempt to discredit legitimate concerns about Corbyn’s anti-Semitism.

I've seen posts here talking about "the likely refugee crisis" of Jews fleeing the UK if he became PM so no it's not a strawman. But handwaving or simply ignoring all the issues with him is absurd too.

47% of British Jews say they plan to emigrate if he becomes PM. This isn't a hypothetical.

The worst case scenario of Corbyn trying to seal the borders and kill all of Britain's Jews is highly unlikely - mostly due to him not having the power. But him using every tool at his disposal to create a hostile climate for Jews, including winking at third-party violence in the way Trump does at far-right violence? That's not a big leap and it could definitely result in a very fast exodus from the UK for several hundred thousand people.

Talk about extreme hyperbole.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

the British irony thing was the most repulsive thing he's said though tbh.

But that's the point in a way, granted it was somewhat crass and tasteless - but compared to what Farage said, or indeed the far from unknown Tory conspiracy theorising about Soros?

I think most of the people raising these questions though don't support Farange or the Tories...

I think the hyperbole about how Corbyn would being about new concentration camps is pretty absurd but there's a lot of red flags that aren't being addressed well....see that image posted by me on the first page. Does posting images like that from a white supremacist website only fall under "criticism of Israel"?

Again, no one has said or implied Corbyn would do that.  It’s just a strawman Horus and certain maroon avatars are whipping out in an attempt to discredit legitimate concerns about Corbyn’s anti-Semitism.

I've seen posts here talking about "the likely refugee crisis" of Jews fleeing the UK if he became PM so no it's not a strawman. But handwaving or simply ignoring all the issues with him is absurd too.

47% of British Jews say they plan to emigrate if he becomes PM. This isn't a hypothetical.

The worst case scenario of Corbyn trying to seal the borders and kill all of Britain's Jews is highly unlikely - mostly due to him not having the power. But him using every tool at his disposal to create a hostile climate for Jews, including winking at third-party violence in the way Trump does at far-right violence? That's not a big leap and it could definitely result in a very fast exodus from the UK for several hundred thousand people.

What percentage of Democrats "planned to emigrate" if Trump became President?

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

the British irony thing was the most repulsive thing he's said though tbh.

But that's the point in a way, granted it was somewhat crass and tasteless - but compared to what Farage said, or indeed the far from unknown Tory conspiracy theorising about Soros?

I think most of the people raising these questions though don't support Farange or the Tories...

I think the hyperbole about how Corbyn would being about new concentration camps is pretty absurd but there's a lot of red flags that aren't being addressed well....see that image posted by me on the first page. Does posting images like that from a white supremacist website only fall under "criticism of Israel"?

Again, no one has said or implied Corbyn would do that.  It’s just a strawman Horus and certain maroon avatars are whipping out in an attempt to discredit legitimate concerns about Corbyn’s anti-Semitism.

I've seen posts here talking about "the likely refugee crisis" of Jews fleeing the UK if he became PM so no it's not a strawman. But handwaving or simply ignoring all the issues with him is absurd too.

47% of British Jews say they plan to emigrate if he becomes PM. This isn't a hypothetical.

The worst case scenario of Corbyn trying to seal the borders and kill all of Britain's Jews is highly unlikely - mostly due to him not having the power. But him using every tool at his disposal to create a hostile climate for Jews, including winking at third-party violence in the way Trump does at far-right violence? That's not a big leap and it could definitely result in a very fast exodus from the UK for several hundred thousand people.

What percentage of Democrats "planned to emigrate" if Trump became President?

Democrats aren't a historically persecuted minority facing a government where the leader has been inciting against them for decades.