Atlasian National Healthcare Bill (Law'd)

[Purple State]

Paying taxes is patriotic?  That is the kind of talk that scares the crap out of a reasonably thinking person

Supporting your government is and government can't survive without revenue from taxes. Unreasonable taxes are terrible, but I don't think any of the taxes raised here are unreasonable, especially for the service being provided.

     Being patriotic or not is a choice, ignoring the fact that patriotism is an overused platitude. Unless you are saying that paying taxes should be a choice, please don't try to link the two together, thank you.

Of course paying taxes is a choice. We all have free will. It's the consequences of not paying your taxes that tips the equation for most people towards paying, rather than not. I'm not really sure why paying one's taxes should not be viewed as a small bit of patriotism, just as rallying in support of your government would be. And visa versa.

[Associate Justice PiT]

Paying taxes is patriotic?  That is the kind of talk that scares the crap out of a reasonably thinking person

Supporting your government is and government can't survive without revenue from taxes. Unreasonable taxes are terrible, but I don't think any of the taxes raised here are unreasonable, especially for the service being provided.

     Being patriotic or not is a choice, ignoring the fact that patriotism is an overused platitude. Unless you are saying that paying taxes should be a choice, please don't try to link the two together, thank you.

Of course paying taxes is a choice. We all have free will. It's the consequences of not paying your taxes that tips the equation for most people towards paying, rather than not. I'm not really sure why paying one's taxes should not be viewed as a small bit of patriotism, just as rallying in support of your government would be. And visa versa.

     Well, as you point out, there are legal consequences for not paying taxes. I pay taxes because I don't want to go to prison. Does that make me patriotic? For that matter, is someone who got sent to Vietnam because they did not want to go to prison patriotic? Doesn't it undermine the notion of patriotism when the choice is between being patriotic & suffering the wrath of the state?

[Purple State]

Paying taxes is patriotic?  That is the kind of talk that scares the crap out of a reasonably thinking person

Supporting your government is and government can't survive without revenue from taxes. Unreasonable taxes are terrible, but I don't think any of the taxes raised here are unreasonable, especially for the service being provided.

     Being patriotic or not is a choice, ignoring the fact that patriotism is an overused platitude. Unless you are saying that paying taxes should be a choice, please don't try to link the two together, thank you.

Of course paying taxes is a choice. We all have free will. It's the consequences of not paying your taxes that tips the equation for most people towards paying, rather than not. I'm not really sure why paying one's taxes should not be viewed as a small bit of patriotism, just as rallying in support of your government would be. And visa versa.

     Well, as you point out, there are legal consequences for not paying taxes. I pay taxes because I don't want to go to prison. Does that make me patriotic? For that matter, is someone who got sent to Vietnam because they did not want to go to prison patriotic? Doesn't it undermine the notion of patriotism when the choice is between being patriotic & suffering the wrath of the state?

The other option is leaving the country. Many people ducked the war and duck taxes by going abroad. While I'm not sure if this makes them un-patriotic, it certainly is a small testament to those who stay and support their government, no matter in what way.

This is, of course, not to say that any tax is a good tax. Oppressive taxes should be opposed and reflect tyranny, but by no means could one argue that the taxes here act as such.

[Associate Justice PiT]

Paying taxes is patriotic?  That is the kind of talk that scares the crap out of a reasonably thinking person

Supporting your government is and government can't survive without revenue from taxes. Unreasonable taxes are terrible, but I don't think any of the taxes raised here are unreasonable, especially for the service being provided.

     Being patriotic or not is a choice, ignoring the fact that patriotism is an overused platitude. Unless you are saying that paying taxes should be a choice, please don't try to link the two together, thank you.

Of course paying taxes is a choice. We all have free will. It's the consequences of not paying your taxes that tips the equation for most people towards paying, rather than not. I'm not really sure why paying one's taxes should not be viewed as a small bit of patriotism, just as rallying in support of your government would be. And visa versa.

     Well, as you point out, there are legal consequences for not paying taxes. I pay taxes because I don't want to go to prison. Does that make me patriotic? For that matter, is someone who got sent to Vietnam because they did not want to go to prison patriotic? Doesn't it undermine the notion of patriotism when the choice is between being patriotic & suffering the wrath of the state?

The other option is leaving the country. Many people ducked the war and duck taxes by going abroad. While I'm not sure if this makes them un-patriotic, it certainly is a small testament to those who stay and support their government, no matter in what way.

This is, of course, not to say that any tax is a good tax. Oppressive taxes should be opposed and reflect tyranny, but by no means could one argue that the taxes here act as such.

     I guess we just view the notion of patriotism in different ways. There's nothing wrong with that.

[Purple State]

Paying taxes is patriotic?  That is the kind of talk that scares the crap out of a reasonably thinking person

Supporting your government is and government can't survive without revenue from taxes. Unreasonable taxes are terrible, but I don't think any of the taxes raised here are unreasonable, especially for the service being provided.

     Being patriotic or not is a choice, ignoring the fact that patriotism is an overused platitude. Unless you are saying that paying taxes should be a choice, please don't try to link the two together, thank you.

Of course paying taxes is a choice. We all have free will. It's the consequences of not paying your taxes that tips the equation for most people towards paying, rather than not. I'm not really sure why paying one's taxes should not be viewed as a small bit of patriotism, just as rallying in support of your government would be. And visa versa.

     Well, as you point out, there are legal consequences for not paying taxes. I pay taxes because I don't want to go to prison. Does that make me patriotic? For that matter, is someone who got sent to Vietnam because they did not want to go to prison patriotic? Doesn't it undermine the notion of patriotism when the choice is between being patriotic & suffering the wrath of the state?

The other option is leaving the country. Many people ducked the war and duck taxes by going abroad. While I'm not sure if this makes them un-patriotic, it certainly is a small testament to those who stay and support their government, no matter in what way.

This is, of course, not to say that any tax is a good tax. Oppressive taxes should be opposed and reflect tyranny, but by no means could one argue that the taxes here act as such.

     I guess we just view the notion of patriotism in different ways. There's nothing wrong with that.

Not at all and I'm happy this discussion kept a sincere and polite tone. It's only fun when it isn't personal.

[afleitch]

May I add, I got what I wanted out of this bill not only in my amendment but also with regards to the way in which the whole premise was presented. I hope it satisfies enbough people in general to allow it to pass.

And thank you to Fritz for bringing this to the table; it was one of your first bills (?) and quite a risk.

[Fritz]

Can we bring this to a vote please?

You can call for a cloture vote to speed it up so we don't have to wait 24 hours.

All righty then, I call for a cloture vote.

MJ, you there?

[Purple State]

Can we bring this to a vote please?

You can call for a cloture vote to speed it up so we don't have to wait 24 hours.

All righty then, I call for a cloture vote.

MJ, you there?

Must be his internet is still not working. We should all petition his landlord (or whomever) to get it fixed.

[MasterJedi]

Can we bring this to a vote please?

You can call for a cloture vote to speed it up so we don't have to wait 24 hours.

All righty then, I call for a cloture vote.

MJ, you there?

Must be his internet is still not working. We should all petition his landlord (or whomever) to get it fixed.

Not the landlord's fault, go blame AT&T.   But may I ask to stop the vote on cloture? If you do I'll open up the final vote right away instead of having to go through the cloture vote.

[Fritz]

What is your motive/reason for wanting me to stop the vote on closure?

[MaxQue]

What is your motive/reason for wanting me to stop the vote on closure?

Because he will be able to open the final vote right now. With you, we will vote on cloture and then, we will do the final vote.

[Fritz]

I made the motion for cloture cause I want a vote on this thing.  Jedi, if you are ready to do that, please proceed.

[Purple State]

I made the motion for cloture cause I want a vote on this thing.  Jedi, if you are ready to do that, please proceed.

You need to formally retract your motion for cloture for him to do that.

[California8429]

.....No

[Marokai Backbeat]

.....No

This detailed message brought to you by the Regional Protection Party.

[Alexander Hamilton]

.....No

This detailed message brought to you by the Regional Protection Party.

Although your comment was slightly humorous Marokai, please offer constructive criticism to newbies of all parties. We should want them to stay active and want to offer their voice in the Senate and regional legislatures. I prefer not to shoot down someone on our first meeting. Thank you.

[MaxQue]

.....No

You are not a senator, you can't vote, sorry. But Senators are open to listen constructive arguments about problems in bills.

But ''no'' is not constructive.

[Fritz]

Can we bring this to a vote please?

You can call for a cloture vote to speed it up so we don't have to wait 24 hours.

All righty then, I call for a cloture vote.

It has been well over 72 hours since I moved this.  I see no evidence that things will move any quicker by my withdrawing the motion, so it stands.  MasterJedi, if you are unable to perform your duties, please step aside.

[MasterJedi]

Nevermind, we'll just do it your way and longer:

I hereby open up the vote on cloture. Please vote Aye, Nay or Abstain.

Aye

[afleitch]

Aye

[Hash]

Aye.

[tmthforu94]

Aye

[Purple State]

Aye

Can we bring this to a vote please?

You can call for a cloture vote to speed it up so we don't have to wait 24 hours.

All righty then, I call for a cloture vote.

It has been well over 72 hours since I moved this.  I see no evidence that things will move any quicker by my withdrawing the motion, so it stands.  MasterJedi, if you are unable to perform your duties, please step aside.

MasterJedi was away because of lack of internet, so nothing happened. Had you withdrawn your call for cloture, we wouldn't be voting on cloture right now because we would be voting on the final bill.

[MaxQue]

Aye, since the senator is to stubborn too understand how to not lose our time.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Aye

Aye, since the senator is to stubborn too understand how to not lose our time.

Now now.