Italy 2013: The official thread

[minionofmidas]

The election would have been in april anyways. April, march, february, does it really matter?

[Keystone Phil]

The election would have been in april anyways. April, march, february, does it really matter?

I guess it's a compromise: PD wants it in February (give less time for a PdL comeback) while PdL would benefit from an April vote.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Monti will resign as soon as the Stability Law passes.
He said that he does not want to rule for 3 months with a fake majority...which was what Berlusconi wanted him to do.

Basically,Monti just gave Berlusconi the finger. Berlusconi hoped to appear as the anti-Monti and anti-Euro candidate (criticizing Europe,Euro,austerity and proposing tax cuts...) while at the same time not having any no-confidence,so as to appear "responsible".
Resigning immediately instead of staying in power for 3 more months without the possibility of doing anything,Monti just did a great thing. He's a true statesman,while Berlusconi...it just seems ludicrous to discuss about elections when such human trash is around.

This is not politics,it's a war of ethics and culture.

^^^^

[Kitteh]

Monti will resign as soon as the Stability Law passes.
He said that he does not want to rule for 3 months with a fake majority...which was what Berlusconi wanted him to do.

Basically,Monti just gave Berlusconi the finger. Berlusconi hoped to appear as the anti-Monti and anti-Euro candidate (criticizing Europe,Euro,austerity and proposing tax cuts...) while at the same time not having any no-confidence,so as to appear "responsible".
Resigning immediately instead of staying in power for 3 more months without the possibility of doing anything,Monti just did a great thing. He's a true statesman,while Berlusconi...it just seems ludicrous to discuss about elections when such human trash is around.

This is not politics,it's a war of ethics and culture.

^^^^

This. I don't agree with many of Monti's policies but I can respect him as a good person who is trying to do the right thing. Berlusconi, on the other hand...piece of s--t is too kind a term.

[RogueBeaver]

I've been pro-SB for years, now firmly opposed to him because he wants cheap populism rather than economic reform. Therefore I'm supporting PD this time.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

I've been pro-SB for years, now firmly opposed to him because he wants cheap populism rather than economic reform. Therefore I'm supporting PD this time.

Welcome to the side of the righteous.

Silvio Berlusconi used to be funny. [EXPUNGED], 1996, 2001, 2006, and 2008 were all to greater or lesser extents normal elections between parties of varying policies and levels of corruption like countries normally have. 2013 is going to be, as Antonio said, a matter of near-spiritual import for the Italian Republic.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Delete 1994 from that list.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Delete 1994 from that list.

Yeah, the word "normal" certainly doesn't apply to that one.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Delete 1994 from that list.

Yeah, the word "normal" certainly doesn't apply to that one.

You're entirely correct.

[Iannis]

I've been pro-SB for years, now firmly opposed to him because he wants cheap populism rather than economic reform. Therefore I'm supporting PD this time.

Fortunately unlike some countries where voters are unnaturally forced to choose just between 2 parties, we have plenty of alternatives between Berlusconi's populism, and Bersani old style  trade union-led socialdemocracy. For example it's more likely Monti will candidate somehow, and in any case there are liberal parties with  programmes alternative to BErsani and Berlusconi.

[Keystone Phil]

That only makes the vote personally less painful, Iannis. At the end of the day, though, those parties are going to join one of the coalitions so you're still deciding between Bersani and Berlusconi. And let's be realistic: Monti isn't getting enough support to keep one of the other two out of power.

[Keystone Phil]

It looks like the election is now slated for February 17th or 24th.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

It looks like the election is now slated for February 17th or 24th.

Good.

[YL]

Hopefully Berlusconi finally gets the thrashing he so richly deserves, and retires for good.

[Antonio the Sixth]

It looks like the election is now slated for February 17th or 24th.

Good.

Yeah, the sooner the better.

[RogueBeaver]

My worry is that Berlusconi teams up with the Northern League and works out a confidence deal with M5S, and by running a lowest-common-denominator campaign he picks up enough floating voters to eke out a win. Fortunately he probably doesn't have enough time to do that. He's called Monti Merkel's servant and his papers are going full Greek with her in Nazi garb and plenty of 4th Reich headlines. The slogan might well be Whitlam '75: "maintain your rage", given how unpopular Monti's policies are.


Oh, and apparently he tried to *induce* Renzi into defecting his way. Renzi sent him an open letter basically saying "Piss off, as I've told twice in person, I'm not for sale." Good on him.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Rage maintenance was Whitlam '75. We can but hope this goes as well for Berlusconi as that went for (the morally and politically night-and-day superior) Gough.

[Keystone Phil]

Yeah, the Renzi response was funny. It would have been more fun if he took him up on the offer though.

I'm actually in the awkward position of not caring for the big guy but will be helping a PdL candidate or two (unless they join this new AN party that's supposedly starting. One is far more likely than the other to join but it really doesn't matter since that party will join PdL in the coalition). It will be a very interesting election in more ways than one.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Hopefully Berlusconi gets battered as badly as the (rebranded) DC's in 1994.

[Keystone Phil]

Hopefully Berlusconi gets battered as badly as the (rebranded) DC's in 1994.

That just can't happen. The support for M5S will surely come down soon enough and I'm willing to bet that Berlusconi's ratings are better than Monti's after the past year. I don't think that's enough for a victory but, you know...

[RogueBeaver]

Berlusconi's pitch would've been perfect for PdL... if he or they had any shred of credibility left, which they don't. Right now they're actually behind M5S in certain polls.

[Keystone Phil]

Berlusconi's pitch would've been perfect for PdL... if he or they had any shred of credibility left, which they don't. Right now they're actually behind M5S in certain polls.

No, I'm pretty sure they're behind them in every poll.

Wait until the campaign is underway. Then we'll see who is credible and who isn't. I just have a hard time believing that M5S maintains their advantage.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Berlusconi's pitch would've been perfect for PdL... if he or they had any shred of credibility left, which they don't. Right now they're actually behind M5S in certain polls.

No, I'm pretty sure they're behind them in every poll.

Wait until the campaign is underway. Then we'll see who is credible and who isn't. I just have a hard time believing that M5S maintains their advantage.

The problem is we're discussing an event that will include both credibility and Silvio Berlusconi. If Berlusconi gains enough back from M5S to win I'll be extremely surprised (and depressed).

[Keystone Phil]

Hey, he surprised before. He consistently trailed Prodi by about six points before the 2006 vote and ended up losing by only 0.1%. I know these are very different times but never say never with this guy.

[Iannis]

That only makes the vote personally less painful, Iannis. At the end of the day, though, those parties are going to join one of the coalitions so you're still deciding between Bersani and Berlusconi. And let's be realistic: Monti isn't getting enough support to keep one of the other two out of power.

Oh no, centrist parties for sure will run independently alternative to both Bersani and Berlusconi in any case, the only doubt is whether Monti will candidate to premiership explicitly or not. And this would make a big big difference.
Since there is also Grillo's M5S, the race is NOT already between Bersani and BErlusconi,  so why not to have 4 strong candidates?