Impeachment Megathread Part 3

[GeorgiaModerate]

https://twitter.com/RadioFreeTom/status/1222285218536665091

[Hindsight was 2020]

You know from a political standpoint having the GOP votedown witnesses and acquiting Trump is more likely to rally the public against them than calling witnesses and still acquitting

[Inmate Trump]

You know from a political standpoint having the GOP votedown witnesses and acquiting Trump is more likely to rally the public against them than calling witnesses and still acquitting

This has been my thought too.

If they have no witnesses, and acquit...it will look extremely bad.  It might even be so bad as to make their victory feel like defeat.  It's actually in their own best interests to have witnesses.

[Progressive Pessimist]

You know from a political standpoint having the GOP votedown witnesses and acquiting Trump is more likely to rally the public against them than calling witnesses and still acquitting

I'm not so optimistic. I don't think the American public will care about or even remember any of this by election day, even if it does upset a plurality or majority of them in the near-future.

It's still a better outcome than the acquittal somehow guaranteeing Trump's re-election, which I don't see happening under any circumstance for the same reasons.

[Nyvin]

You know from a political standpoint having the GOP votedown witnesses and acquiting Trump is more likely to rally the public against them than calling witnesses and still acquitting

I'm not so optimistic. I don't think the American public will care about or even remember any of this by election day, even if it does upset a plurality or majority of them in the near-future.

It's still a better outcome than the acquittal somehow guaranteeing Trump's re-election, which I don't see happening under any circumstance for the same reasons.

They cared enough about Hillary's email server to not elect her president.

[Progressive Pessimist]

You know from a political standpoint having the GOP votedown witnesses and acquiting Trump is more likely to rally the public against them than calling witnesses and still acquitting

I'm not so optimistic. I don't think the American public will care about or even remember any of this by election day, even if it does upset a plurality or majority of them in the near-future.

It's still a better outcome than the acquittal somehow guaranteeing Trump's re-election, which I don't see happening under any circumstance for the same reasons.

They cared enough about Hillary's email server to not elect her president.

Yeah, but simultaneously they didn't care, or stopped caring about the nearly countless number of immeasurably worse things Trump did before and during that campaign.

Trump constantly gets by on apathy, double standards, and low expectations in ways no other politicians can or ever will.

[pppolitics]

You know from a political standpoint having the GOP votedown witnesses and acquiting Trump is more likely to rally the public against them than calling witnesses and still acquitting

I'm not so optimistic. I don't think the American public will care about or even remember any of this by election day, even if it does upset a plurality or majority of them in the near-future.

It's still a better outcome than the acquittal somehow guaranteeing Trump's re-election, which I don't see happening under any circumstance for the same reasons.

Clinton was president for 8 years and the one thing most people remember about him is that he was impeached.

[Vaccinated Russian Bear]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/impeachment-trial-live-updates/2020/01/28/8fadd30e-41bd-11ea-aa6a-083d01b3ed18_story.html

White House Counsel Pat Cipollone began his final presentation with a video compilation showing several House managers and Senate Democrats criticizing the impeachment of President Bill Clinton in 1998.

In old C-SPAN footage, Rep. Jerrold Nadler (D-N.Y.) said there should “never be a narrowly voted impeachment or an impeachment supported by one of our major political parties and opposed by the other.”

Rep. Zoe Lofgren (D-Calif.) said the Clinton impeachment would “damage the faith the American people have in this institution.”

“Future presidents will face election, then litigation, then impeachment,” she said.

Sens. Edward J. Markey (D-Mass.) and Robert Menendez (D-N.J.) were shown making similar points as House representatives. Markey called the impeachment a “constitutional coup d’etat which will haunt this body and our country forever.”

The roundup ended with footage of Senate Minority Leader Charles E. Schumer (D-N.Y.) saying: “My fear is that when a Republican wins the White House, Democrats will demand payback.”

“You were right,” Cipollone said after the video ended, prompting laughter in the chamber. “But I’m sorry to say you were also prophetic. And I think I couldn’t say it better myself, so I won’t.”

I totally agree with Democrats on this one. Make Democrats Sane Again!

Here is the video from the presentation>>>

https://twitter.com/SenateGOP/status/1222273689221320706

[Penn_Quaker_Girl]

Today's question portion of the trial (beginning at 1:00pm EST) will work as follows:

- There will be sixteen hours -- spread out across two days (Wednesday and Thursday) -- allotted for questions.  The Democrats have already stated their intentions to use the full-time.  

- Each question will be read by the Chief Justice.  The questions have been pre-written on special forms (presumably to avoid Senators asking the same questions ad nauseum). Each form includes space for the question as well as a space for the Senator to write his or her name.  

- Per CNN: the questions are NOT anonymous.  Before reading the question, the Chief Justice will state which Senator wrote the inquiry.  

- Answers must be limited to a maximum of five minutes apiece.  

- The questions will alternate between Democrats and Republicans.  

- Senators may band together to ask the same question -- presumably if a group of Senators feel that a question is particularly pressing.  

- It is anticipated that a vote on whether to admit new witnesses/documents will take place on Friday following a debate.

[pppolitics]

Democrats should show another video of old Lindsey:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlh8Coth8to

[wbrocks67]

The problem with the "Partisan impeachment" argument is that even back in 1999, I don't think anyone would've predicted that it would be so partisan and people wouldn't act in good faith. You legitimately have almost all Republicans willing to be on Trump's side despite *everything*. That negates any argument about that, considering all the evidence in the world could be infront of them, Rs would vote to acquit, and that's... not Democrats fault. It's also not Democrats fault if they're the only ones willing to hold someone accountable.

[Penn_Quaker_Girl]

Trump firing back on Bolton this morning:

https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1222496705763008515?ref_src=tw...

It's about the closest thing you'll ever get to President Trump admitting that he made a mistake.  

[Vaccinated Russian Bear]

https://twitter.com/Morning_Joe/status/1222515507343036416

QUESTION: "Is Hunter Biden a relevant witness, Senator?"

MANCHIN: "You know, I think so. I really do. I don't have a problem there, because this is why we are where we are. Now, I think that he can clear himself, what I know and what I've heard."


Stay strong, Sen. Manchin! 🙏🙏🙏

[wbrocks67]

What is Manchin's game here? He's not up again until 2024.

[roxas11]

The problem with the "Partisan impeachment" argument is that even back in 1999, I don't think anyone would've predicted that it would be so partisan and people wouldn't act in good faith. You legitimately have almost all Republicans willing to be on Trump's side despite *everything*. That negates any argument about that, considering all the evidence in the world could be infront of them, Rs would vote to acquit, and that's... not Democrats fault. It's also not Democrats fault if they're the only ones willing to hold someone accountable.

Another problem with the  "Partisan impeachment" argument is that most Americans Simpy are not buying it. they really do believe that Trump abused his power  and they think he should be removed from office. The fact is the vast majority of them are supporting Impeachment at a level we have never seen before for any president. In the past impeachment was bipartisan but that was mainly because Impeachment was very unpopular among both democrats and republicans



Bush Obama Clinton

even if people disliked those president  poll after poll showed that the Majority never supported removing any of them from office.  even in the case of Nixon  most Americans simply did not support the impeachment inquiry against  him  nor did they support removing him from office until they very end

Trump changed everything mainly because most people actually believe that he his guilty of everything the Dems are accusing him of.  for first time in american history both Democrats and independents voters support removing a sitting president form office

the only real holdouts are the GOP and that is the main reason why  their "Partisan impeachment" argument is failing flat

[roxas11]

What is Manchin's game here? He's not up again until 2024.

To me it just looks like a clever way to make his future vote for impeachment look better

He can claim that he gave trump a fair shot and he even supported having Hunter testify but ultimately the evidences convinced him that he will have to vote to impeach  

[ugabug]

What is Manchin's game here? He's not up again until 2024.

I've heard before that he's been thinking of making a run at Governor against Jim Justice .

[Vaccinated Russian Bear]

https://twitter.com/costareports/status/1222527959858393089

[roxas11]

https://twitter.com/costareports/status/1222527959858393089

this is actually good news for Joe Biden

not even joe Manchin would back or support having him be called to testify. if you cant get Manchin I doubt They would be able to get other swing state dems to support it

[Vaccinated Russian Bear]

https://twitter.com/JonathanTamari/status/1222531742084534272

[Sir Mohamed]

https://twitter.com/JonathanTamari/status/1222531742084534272

Hunter can't tell why aid was withheld, which is the central argument of this impeachment. He wasn't in the WH at the time, but Bolton was. GOP hacks are trying to distract from the real issue here because their case for Trump is so weak.

[GeneralMacArthur]

https://twitter.com/JonathanTamari/status/1222531742084534272

Hunter can't tell why aid was withheld, which is the central argument of this impeachment. He wasn't in the WH at the time, but Bolton was. GOP hacks are trying to distract from the real issue here because their case for Trump is so weak.

Even if Hunter Biden were to appear in Congress, weepingly confess to stealing a billion dollars from Ukraine, and then phoning daddy and pleading for rescue, it wouldn't matter.

Trump didn't withhold the aid because of things he knows today.  He withheld the aid because of what he knew at the time.  And at the time, based on the knowledge available, no reasonable person would actually believe that investigating Hunter Biden was a vital national security interest worth imperiling an ally over.

Furthermore, it's a moot point.  We already know that the president wasn't actually interested in the corruption.  The aid wasn't conditioned on Zelensky actually starting an investigation.  It was only conditioned on him announcing live on CNN that he was starting an investigation.  Once the political damage was done, Trump was satisfied.  We have plenty of witness testimony and direct evidence to prove this, as well as circumstantial evidence such as the fact that Trump has never bothered to use the resources of the United States to investigate Hunter Biden.

[Vaccinated Russian Bear]

https://twitter.com/JonathanTamari/status/1222531742084534272

Hunter can't tell why aid was withheld, which is the central argument of this impeachment. He wasn't in the WH at the time, but Bolton was. GOP hacks are trying to distract from the real issue here because their case for Trump is so weak.

Even if Hunter Biden were to appear in Congress, weepingly confess to stealing a billion dollars from Ukraine, and then phoning daddy and pleading for rescue, it wouldn't matter.

Trump didn't withhold the aid because of things he knows today.  He withheld the aid because of what he knew at the time.  And at the time, based on the knowledge available, no reasonable person would actually believe that investigating Hunter Biden was a vital national security interest worth imperiling an ally over.

Furthermore, it's a moot point.  We already know that the president wasn't actually interested in the corruption.  The aid wasn't conditioned on Zelensky actually starting an investigation.  It was only conditioned on him announcing live on CNN that he was starting an investigation.  Once the political damage was done, Trump was satisfied.  We have plenty of witness testimony and direct evidence to prove this, as well as circumstantial evidence such as the fact that Trump has never bothered to use the resources of the United States to investigate Hunter Biden.

Russians agree to disagree

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/13/us/politics/russian-hackers-burisma-ukraine.html
Russians Hacked Ukrainian Gas Company at Center of Impeachment



It is also well-reported that Hunter is a cocaine-addict and hooker-ducker. And so he was in Ukraine getting $$$ of pro-Russian Gas Company. Red Sparrows started hunting Hunter the second his foot touched the Ukrainian soil.


It IS a vital national security interest to make sure there is no 'dirt' on your possible next president, Joe Biden. Because Russian will get it eventually   

[Penn_Quaker_Girl]

From CNN's live impeachment thread:

But this is what we do know about how GOP senators could vote:

Strong lean toward "yes":

Sen. Susan Collins

Sen. Mitt Romney

Soft lean toward "yes": 

Sen. Lisa Murkowski

Firmly undecided:

Sen. Lamar Alexander

Unclear:

Sen. Rob Portman

Sen. Pat Toomey

Sen. Bill Cassidy

Note: CNN is told there may be one or two who we haven’t been paying attention to who may be in this group. But the universe of undecided is actually quite small in the GOP conference. There is now tremendous pressure on them from all sides to make up their minds.

Of course, these articles are pretty much educated guesswork at this point. 

[wbrocks67]

Agreed about the partisan impeachment issue being a non-starter. Polls have consistently showed a plurality now okay with impeach AND remove. That includes a lot of independents a few of Republicans. However, it rarely gets brought up that that's a thing.