Impeachment Megathread Part 3

[Arizona Iced Tea]

America is weeping at this vote.

Most of America doesn't care and doesn't even know what impeachment is.

It's actually a pretty popular topic.

Impeachment is such a popular topic that the soap operas usually get 2x higher TV ratings than the trial when shown on the broadcast networks in the afternoon. It's such a popular topic that a Democratic focus group took 80 minutes to even mention the topic, and when they did they dismissed it as partisan nonsense.

Only hyper-partisans care about impeachment.

And only Republican dumbasses think this was a win for Trump.

Ok

[Calthrina950]

America is weeping at this vote.

Most of America doesn't care and doesn't even know what impeachment is.

It's actually a pretty popular topic.

Impeachment is such a popular topic that the soap operas usually get 2x higher TV ratings than the trial when shown on the broadcast networks in the afternoon. It's such a popular topic that a Democratic focus group took 80 minutes to even mention the topic, and when they did they dismissed it as partisan nonsense.

Only hyper-partisans care about impeachment.

Are you referring to the focus group on CBS, that was moderated by Frank Luntz? It was an all-female focus group, and every woman at that table, from what I've heard, both Democrats and Republicans, predicted that Trump would win reelection.

[Nyvin]

America is weeping at this vote.

Most of America doesn't care and doesn't even know what impeachment is.

It's actually a pretty popular topic.

Impeachment is such a popular topic that the soap operas usually get 2x higher TV ratings than the trial when shown on the broadcast networks in the afternoon. It's such a popular topic that a Democratic focus group took 80 minutes to even mention the topic, and when they did they dismissed it as partisan nonsense.

Only hyper-partisans care about impeachment.

Not hyper partisan at all.   If someone has any interests in politics whatsoever,  they'll be at least semi-informed of impeachment.   

Yes, there's some people who are completely disconnected from the political systems in the country, there's nothing much we can do about that.

[GeorgiaModerate]

America is weeping at this vote.

Most of America doesn't care and doesn't even know what impeachment is.

It's actually a pretty popular topic.

Impeachment is such a popular topic that the soap operas usually get 2x higher TV ratings than the trial when shown on the broadcast networks in the afternoon. It's such a popular topic that a Democratic focus group took 80 minutes to even mention the topic, and when they did they dismissed it as partisan nonsense.

Only hyper-partisans care about impeachment.

Are you referring to the focus group on CBS, that was moderated by Frank Luntz? It was an all-female focus group, and every woman at that table, from what I've heard, both Democrats and Republicans, predicted that Trump would win reelection.

I'm generally not too impressed with polls that ask "who do you think will win?"  Similar polls before the 2016 election showed an overwhelming expectation that Hillary Clinton would win.

[Farmlands]

The most saddening thing in all this, for me, is the continued erosion of congressional power, to the point where the presidency now guarantees a blank check on all illegal actions, exactly what impeachment was designed to protect against. I'm not going to watch the Senators fumbling to save face on Monday, they've said all they need to.

[cinyc]

America is weeping at this vote.

Most of America doesn't care and doesn't even know what impeachment is.

It's actually a pretty popular topic.

Impeachment is such a popular topic that the soap operas usually get 2x higher TV ratings than the trial when shown on the broadcast networks in the afternoon. It's such a popular topic that a Democratic focus group took 80 minutes to even mention the topic, and when they did they dismissed it as partisan nonsense.

Only hyper-partisans care about impeachment.

Are you referring to the focus group on CBS, that was moderated by Frank Luntz? It was an all-female focus group, and every woman at that table, from what I've heard, both Democrats and Republicans, predicted that Trump would win reelection.

No. I'm refering to a Democratic focus group in Chicago run by David Axelrod:

"Because impeachment didn’t come up, no one volunteered it, for 80 minutes into the focus group, and we’re right in the middle of the trial."


"When it came up, they said, you know, it's terrible what he did, the case has been proven, but we know how it's going to turn out," Axelrod continued. "So we're not really that interested, we're ready to move on."

https://thehill.com/homenews/media/479876-cnns-axelrod-says-impeachment-didnt-come-up-until-80-minutes-into-focus-group

[Progressive Pessimist]

I'm usually not short on words, but I don't know what else to say at this point.

This "trial" has gone almost exactly as I expected. The only real suspense now is how the acquittal vote goes. Does Manchin vote to acquit? Does a single Republican defect? Ultimately, neither of those questions really matter though because we should just assume the worst since that's we always get in this timeline. It's going to be a 44-56 vote to acquit isn't it? With Jones and Sinema joining Manchin and a united Branch Trumpidian caucus. This is at least what I'm going to convince myself of so that I can be slightly pleasantly surprised when only Manchin joins the other side.

The only real consolation is that the vote will take place after Trump's State of the Union (spoilers: he'll say the state is strong when in reality it's about as weak and flimsy as rice paper). I don't know if I could tolerate an hour-and-a-half of Trump gloating about his acquittal. His acquittal doesn't equal innocence though, and I hope enough Americans are smart enough to see through that. I might be giving them too much credit though. I still think that the American public forgetting that this weak defense mechanism of our nation ever happening is the most likely. This isn't going to somehow assure Trump's re-election or negative consequences for the GOP though. Really, it's going to become a footnote in history. The gloating before we get to that point by Trump and his mind-slaves is going to be agonizing though. Expect many blue avatars who never entered this megathread and all its iterations before to show up here to do what they love the most: "lib triggering" on Wednesday. That is going to be a dark day in our nation's history and I am dreading it about as much as I am dreading every day before we know the results of November's election. And depending how that goes there is a chance that I will end up dreading every day after that too, because our country is truly in an unsustainable place, and it can somehow get worse still.

Also I must say that the Democrats did nothing wrong and have nothing to be ashamed of. They did all they could, but this was always how an impeachment of Donald trump was going to go. The Kavanaugh hearings were another early indicator of that.

I guess I wasn't so short on words after all. I'm going to go watch the final new episodes of 'Bojack Horseman' now. That is somehow going to be an upper compared to today's events and the events that will invariably follow it.

[cinyc]

Not hyper partisan at all.   If someone has any interests in politics whatsoever,  they'll be at least semi-informed of impeachment.   

Yes, there's some people who are completely disconnected from the political systems in the country, there's nothing much we can do about that.

There's a whole country of sane people that aren't as into politics as those on US Election Atlas dot org. That doesn't make them completely disconnected from the political systems in the country. It makes them normal.

[Figueira]

America is weeping at this vote.

Most of America doesn't care and doesn't even know what impeachment is.

It's actually a pretty popular topic.

Impeachment is such a popular topic that the soap operas usually get 2x higher TV ratings than the trial when shown on the broadcast networks in the afternoon. It's such a popular topic that a Democratic focus group took 80 minutes to even mention the topic, and when they did they dismissed it as partisan nonsense.

Only hyper-partisans care about impeachment.

Are you referring to the focus group on CBS, that was moderated by Frank Luntz? It was an all-female focus group, and every woman at that table, from what I've heard, both Democrats and Republicans, predicted that Trump would win reelection.

No. I'm refering to a Democratic focus group in Chicago run by David Axelrod:

"Because impeachment didn’t come up, no one volunteered it, for 80 minutes into the focus group, and we’re right in the middle of the trial."


"When it came up, they said, you know, it's terrible what he did, the case has been proven, but we know how it's going to turn out," Axelrod continued. "So we're not really that interested, we're ready to move on."

https://thehill.com/homenews/media/479876-cnns-axelrod-says-impeachment-didnt-come-up-until-80-minutes-into-focus-group

They know how it's going to go, because they know that Republican Senators are members of the Trump cult.

[2016]

So interesting:
Closing Arguments Monday 11am to 3pm ET and then Senators Sanders, Warren, Klobuchar and Bennet can go to Iowa. They will barely make it. From Washington to Des Moines takes about two to three Hours.

And if I were the Defense Team I'd use maximum time to inflict the most damage possible to those 4 Senators.

They're the Reason McConnell couldn't get it done tonight.

[Arizona Iced Tea]

So interesting:
Closing Arguments Monday 11am to 3pm ET and then Senators Sanders, Warren, Klobuchar and Bennet can go to Iowa. They will barely make it. From Washington to Des Moines takes about two to three Hours.

And if I were the Defense Team I'd use maximum time to inflict the most damage possible to those 4 Senators.

They're the Reason McConnell couldn't get it done tonight.

What if McConnell holds the trial late into the night on Monday, and if Sanders wins Iowa he won't be able to give a victory speech

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

So interesting:
Closing Arguments Monday 11am to 3pm ET and then Senators Sanders, Warren, Klobuchar and Bennet can go to Iowa. They will barely make it. From Washington to Des Moines takes about two to three Hours.

And if I were the Defense Team I'd use maximum time to inflict the most damage possible to those 4 Senators.

They're the Reason McConnell couldn't get it done tonight.

What if McConnell holds the trial late into the night on Monday, and if Sanders wins Iowa he won't be able to give a victory speech

Once closing arguments are done Senators can leave until the vote, unless they intend to speak.

[HisGrace]

So interesting:
Closing Arguments Monday 11am to 3pm ET and then Senators Sanders, Warren, Klobuchar and Bennet can go to Iowa. They will barely make it. From Washington to Des Moines takes about two to three Hours.

And if I were the Defense Team I'd use maximum time to inflict the most damage possible to those 4 Senators.

They're the Reason McConnell couldn't get it done tonight.

What if McConnell holds the trial late into the night on Monday, and if Sanders wins Iowa he won't be able to give a victory speech

Trump and co. would pretty clearly prefer running against Sanders to Biden.

[Arizona Iced Tea]

So interesting:
Closing Arguments Monday 11am to 3pm ET and then Senators Sanders, Warren, Klobuchar and Bennet can go to Iowa. They will barely make it. From Washington to Des Moines takes about two to three Hours.

And if I were the Defense Team I'd use maximum time to inflict the most damage possible to those 4 Senators.

They're the Reason McConnell couldn't get it done tonight.

What if McConnell holds the trial late into the night on Monday, and if Sanders wins Iowa he won't be able to give a victory speech

Once closing arguments are done Senators can leave until the vote, unless they intend to speak.

Yeah, but is he going to fly all the way to Iowa?

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

America is weeping at this vote.

Most of America doesn't care and doesn't even know what impeachment is.

It's actually a pretty popular topic.

Impeachment is such a popular topic that the soap operas usually get 2x higher TV ratings than the trial when shown on the broadcast networks in the afternoon. It's such a popular topic that a Democratic focus group took 80 minutes to even mention the topic, and when they did they dismissed it as partisan nonsense.

Only hyper-partisans care about impeachment.

Are you referring to the focus group on CBS, that was moderated by Frank Luntz? It was an all-female focus group, and every woman at that table, from what I've heard, both Democrats and Republicans, predicted that Trump would win reelection.

No. I'm refering to a Democratic focus group in Chicago run by David Axelrod:

"Because impeachment didn’t come up, no one volunteered it, for 80 minutes into the focus group, and we’re right in the middle of the trial."


"When it came up, they said, you know, it's terrible what he did, the case has been proven, but we know how it's going to turn out," Axelrod continued. "So we're not really that interested, we're ready to move on."

https://thehill.com/homenews/media/479876-cnns-axelrod-says-impeachment-didnt-come-up-until-80-minutes-into-focus-group

They know how it's going to go, because they know that Republican Senators are members of the Trump cult.

Yeah, the idea that "it's terrible what he did, the case has been proven, but we know how it's going to turn out" sums to "dismissing it as partisan nonsense" is...well, it's an idea that sorely needs defending.

[cinyc]

America is weeping at this vote.

Most of America doesn't care and doesn't even know what impeachment is.

It's actually a pretty popular topic.

Impeachment is such a popular topic that the soap operas usually get 2x higher TV ratings than the trial when shown on the broadcast networks in the afternoon. It's such a popular topic that a Democratic focus group took 80 minutes to even mention the topic, and when they did they dismissed it as partisan nonsense.

Only hyper-partisans care about impeachment.

Are you referring to the focus group on CBS, that was moderated by Frank Luntz? It was an all-female focus group, and every woman at that table, from what I've heard, both Democrats and Republicans, predicted that Trump would win reelection.

No. I'm refering to a Democratic focus group in Chicago run by David Axelrod:

"Because impeachment didn’t come up, no one volunteered it, for 80 minutes into the focus group, and we’re right in the middle of the trial."


"When it came up, they said, you know, it's terrible what he did, the case has been proven, but we know how it's going to turn out," Axelrod continued. "So we're not really that interested, we're ready to move on."

https://thehill.com/homenews/media/479876-cnns-axelrod-says-impeachment-didnt-come-up-until-80-minutes-into-focus-group

They know how it's going to go, because they know that Republican Senators are members of the Trump cult.

Yeah, the idea that "it's terrible what he did, the case has been proven, but we know how it's going to turn out" sums to "dismissing it as partisan nonsense" is...well, it's an idea that sorely needs defending.

"we're really not that interested. We're ready to move on." So should the Democrats. So should Atlas posters.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

America is weeping at this vote.

Most of America doesn't care and doesn't even know what impeachment is.

It's actually a pretty popular topic.

Impeachment is such a popular topic that the soap operas usually get 2x higher TV ratings than the trial when shown on the broadcast networks in the afternoon. It's such a popular topic that a Democratic focus group took 80 minutes to even mention the topic, and when they did they dismissed it as partisan nonsense.

Only hyper-partisans care about impeachment.

Are you referring to the focus group on CBS, that was moderated by Frank Luntz? It was an all-female focus group, and every woman at that table, from what I've heard, both Democrats and Republicans, predicted that Trump would win reelection.

No. I'm refering to a Democratic focus group in Chicago run by David Axelrod:

"Because impeachment didn’t come up, no one volunteered it, for 80 minutes into the focus group, and we’re right in the middle of the trial."


"When it came up, they said, you know, it's terrible what he did, the case has been proven, but we know how it's going to turn out," Axelrod continued. "So we're not really that interested, we're ready to move on."

https://thehill.com/homenews/media/479876-cnns-axelrod-says-impeachment-didnt-come-up-until-80-minutes-into-focus-group

They know how it's going to go, because they know that Republican Senators are members of the Trump cult.

Yeah, the idea that "it's terrible what he did, the case has been proven, but we know how it's going to turn out" sums to "dismissing it as partisan nonsense" is...well, it's an idea that sorely needs defending.

"we're really not that interested. We're ready to move on." So should the Democrats. So should Atlas posters.

I don't disagree at this point, but as for the idea that this was a political or moral victory for your strongman-loving extreme-right personality cult of a party--if this is victory, what a sad, craven excuse for victory it is. Love yourself, man.

[Joe Republic]

This could have been the perfect opportunity for the Republican Party to quickly and constitutionally remove the albatross around their party's neck, and replace it with a new president who arguably better represents everything they (used to) stand for and stands a better chance of winning in November.  Oops!

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

This could have been the perfect opportunity for the Republican Party to quickly and constitutionally remove the albatross around their party's neck, and replace it with a new president who arguably better represents everything they (used to) stand for and stands a better chance of winning in November.  Oops!

I don't necessarily agree with the bold part. Pence is an ideal old-school fusionist Republican on paper but I doubt he could harness the atavistic Yeatsian energies that (barely) propelled Trump into office.

[Dr Oz Lost Party!]

This could have been the perfect opportunity for the Republican Party to quickly and constitutionally remove the albatross around their party's neck, and replace it with a new president who arguably better represents everything they (used to) stand for and stands a better chance of winning in November.  Oops!

I don't necessarily agree with the bold part. Pence is an ideal old-school fusionist Republican on paper but I doubt he could harness the atavistic Yeatsian energies that (barely) propelled Trump into office.

I agree. I can't see him winning states like Pennsylvania and Michigan. Trump had that certain star power that allowed him to upset Clinton there that Pence doesn't possess.

[Nyvin]

"we're really not that interested. We're ready to move on." So should the Democrats. So should Atlas posters.

I'm sure Democrats will move on faster than Republicans did with Benghazi.

[junior chįmp]

The most saddening thing in all this, for me, is the continued erosion of congressional power, to the point where the presidency now guarantees a blank check on all illegal actions, exactly what impeachment was designed to protect against. I'm not going to watch the Senators fumbling to save face on Monday, they've said all they need to.

It's the inevitable end result of a system that didn't hold:

1) Nixon accountable for Watergate
2) Ford for pardoning Nixon
3) Reagan for Iran Contra
4) HW Bush for his role in Iran Contra and pardoning those who perpetrated it
5) Dubya for lying about Iraq

It's no coincidence we are where were at now

[Calthrina950]

The most saddening thing in all this, for me, is the continued erosion of congressional power, to the point where the presidency now guarantees a blank check on all illegal actions, exactly what impeachment was designed to protect against. I'm not going to watch the Senators fumbling to save face on Monday, they've said all they need to.

It's the inevitable end result of a system that didn't hold:

1) Nixon accountable for Watergate
2) Ford for pardoning Nixon
3) Reagan for Iran Contra
4) HW Bush for his role in Iran Contra and pardoning those who perpetrated it
5) Dubya for lying about Iraq

It's no coincidence we are where were at now

Most historians long ago concluded that Ford's decision to pardon Nixon was the correct one, even though it was deeply unpopular at the time and contributed to his defeat in 1976.  It spared the country even more agony from Watergate. Even Ted Kennedy later praised Ford for his move, as can be read here: https://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/2009/08/sen_ted_kennedy_crossed_politi.html.

[Meclazine for Israel]

This isn't going to somehow assure Trump's re-election or negative consequences for the GOP though. Really, it's going to become a footnote in history.

Yes indeed, not allowing witnesses will hurt the integrity of his acquittal.

The negative consequences that you speak of will be for the populous to decide on election day.

If Trump is clever, he can use the same argument on Joe Biden of all the criticisms that the Democrats throw at him.

 

[junior chįmp]

The most saddening thing in all this, for me, is the continued erosion of congressional power, to the point where the presidency now guarantees a blank check on all illegal actions, exactly what impeachment was designed to protect against. I'm not going to watch the Senators fumbling to save face on Monday, they've said all they need to.

It's the inevitable end result of a system that didn't hold:

1) Nixon accountable for Watergate
2) Ford for pardoning Nixon
3) Reagan for Iran Contra
4) HW Bush for his role in Iran Contra and pardoning those who perpetrated it
5) Dubya for lying about Iraq

It's no coincidence we are where were at now

Most historians long ago concluded that Ford's decision to pardon Nixon was the correct one, even though it was deeply unpopular at the time and contributed to his defeat in 1976.  It spared the country even more agony from Watergate. Even Ted Kennedy later praised Ford for his move, as can be read here: https://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/2009/08/sen_ted_kennedy_crossed_politi.html.

Well yeah, they have no say that. American history is one long BS story in which everything always has to work out for the better even when it doesnt.

Also, keep in mind....most history is wrong and made up. Just because a big brain historian with a bunch of degrees writes a historical narrative doesnt make it true.